Kerry,

And what exact agenda is that?

Allow gays to hold hands and kiss in the checkout line. Allow gays to have open sex in the back?

Or maybe your worried they might get the more the mundane things the rest of us get without being accused of having an "agenda". Like a job, daycare, and retirement and insurance benefits. Uuuuugh. Disgusting. Any gay person that wants these must have and AGENDA!!! Run for the hills. Here comes the homo-burger.

Kerry,

And for all these accusations about gays having an agenda, and conservatives denying they discriminate...one thing I know for certain. The average American doesn't deal with nazi stormtrooper organizations like AFA and FOF looking over their shoulder at everything they do or don't do trying to find dirty laundry to issue a press release about.

I mean these folks like AFA and FOF, are doing the equivalent of what the KKK might of tried in the 50's watching and warning Americans with an internet press release when cities liberalized their laws too much toward blacks.

Warning...warning this just in. Mobile Alabama is promoting the black agenda....by giving blacks equal access to all seats on city buses...be sure to talk to your state senator today before they pollute our cities any further with their agenda...your friendly KKK representative.

Do any of the democrats bother to go to church or are some of them hypocrites and pretend to believe in the bible? The commentors on here don't have a choice of where they're going when the die. Hell isn't half full so speed on brother. I guess Hussein O proved you can set in church for 20 years and not hear a thing. Me, I refused to buy another Ford and I'll stay out of McDonalds. Ford payed big time and the AFA can make McDonalds wish they had kept their mouth shut and played the old game. Sometimes it's better to remains silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. They can play the homo game but they shouldn't try to push it on other, which is exactly what they are doing. BOYCOTT.

Given I don't particularly like McDonalds this is a bit like watching Star Wars and finding out they have great creche facilities on the Dead Star and always ensure that there's a place for the storm troopers in the organisation when they get disabled by the envitiable laser blast.

I read Kerry's link on the "Action Alert" and really wonder what the American Family Association think the "gay agenda" is. There are plenty of business groups that are there for mutual benefit of the members I assume the AMA don't have a problem with them so what is the issue with the gays?

I've said this before in this sort of thread on here but since I haven't had a decent reply yet I'll say it again.

Why do Americas right (and in particular Christian right) obsess about other people being gay? What has it got to do with them? Whether you realise it or not the Westbro Baptist Church just seems a logical extension of of this groups obsessive focus on gay people. Before someone waves their bible at me I'd point out that there only a very few occassions where gay people are remotely referneced in the bible. Many many more where other subjects are highlighted yet the complusive focusing on the few references to gays indicates that this is a subject that the reader of the bible has focused on rather than an important message in the book itself. If it's so bloody important why didn't Jesus mention it? Why was it left to Paul who didn't even meet Jesus himself.

The AFA sound like a nasty piece of work and for the record I object to them hijacking the work family. Gay people and many others who find the AFA revolting are part of families and I think understand family values far better than the AFA and their ilk.

Hiya scrapiron,

I found most of what you had to say rather confused, but I'd like to question a couple of things -

They can play the homo game but they shouldn't try to push it on other, which is exactly what they are doing.

Is this a reference to softball? 'Cos I think thats more lesbian rather than generically gay. I wasn't aware people were being forced to play softball over there, I'm certainly with you in the right to decided whether to play softball or not.

Sometimes it's better to remains silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

I couldn't have said it better myself, but then if you know this quote...

WD,

Its a true obsession on there part, when there are far greater things "threatening" this world. They seem to forget that ancient greece lies at the core of our civilization, and homosexually in that time was about as open and free as it gets...and yet ancient greece didn't vanish because of some fictious gay threat. And it will never threaten our civilization either. The majority of us are and will remain heterosexual, and you can no more change people to homosexuals than you can change our hair or eye color.

And anybody who thinks homosexuality couldn't possibly be genetic, better tell me why God would make it remotely possible for a baby to be born with two heads....they of course can't answer that...other than with the BS answer "god works in mysterious ways".

Of course science can answer why God's creations can end up with two heads....its called genetic mutation...an unthinking, uncaring, unintelligent change that happens to all humans, and all animals...a change that can give you blue eyes, blue blood, three legs, or cancer...the same change that of course lies at the heart of "evolution". But that is a different discussion.

"And what exact agenda is that?"

Read "After the Ball" and find out. If you are not a product of homosexual propaganda, you certainly do a good imitation of one. Perhaps if you read it, you will recognize yourself as its target.

"Of course science can answer why God's creations can end up with two heads....its called genetic mutation...an unthinking, uncaring, unintelligent change that happens to all humans, and all animals...a change that can give you blue eyes, blue blood, three legs, or cancer...the same change that of course lies at the heart of "evolution". But that is a different discussion."

I'm curious. Why do you think the "unthinking, uncaring, unintelligent" random explanation is preferable to the intended, purposeful design argument? God can also give you "blue eyes, blue blood, or cancer." You don't understand why He would, so you would rather assign agency to no one than to a well-attested and widely-believed in controlling entity called "God," of whose decisions you personally disapprove.

What is your argument for chaotic mutation, as opposed to purposeful change?

(Actually, much further afield, and we may want to move this to the OT thread.)

Kerry,

Hmm, I can think of two arguments. One, genetic mutations can be produced by scientist and individuals under the right circumstances. God doesn't need to be involved to make it happen. To much sun, to much exposure to radioactive material, etc.

Second, God may be able to give you cancer, or two heads, but what motivation would he have to give it to a fetus or an infant? What did that child do to deserve such a fate? You can can't answer that without such religious non-answer, but it makes a lot more sense if you look at genetic defects for exactly what they are, unthinking, uncaring changes that happened to develop. A caring God in my opinion wouldn't force such a thing to happen to a child...but he might have created a automatic process that leads to "uncontrolled" results at times. And that appears to be what the genetic defect phenomenon is, and lies at the heart of evolution.

Because all evolution is is a series of mutations that occurred over time, that benefited life instead of killing it....a perfect example of the unthinking and uncaring and unintelligent nature of mutation is the sickle cell mutation found in Africa. This mutation is the perfect double edged sword. If you get two copies of the sickle cell gene from your parents, you are pretty much doomed to die. If you only get one copy, that copy is likely to save you from Malaria. But if you get no copies from parent's of that gene, you are highly susceptible to catching and dying from malaria...or at least you were until the last 50 years. Looking at this scenario...tell me what thinking mutative process would put humans in this predicament? Its like God telling us if you want to live you have to shelter the terrorist you'd just as soon kill.

Actually Kerry, a better analogy would be that God struck a non-verbal agreement with the African's in the Malaria belt and said I will let you keep 50% of your kids, but you must sacrifice the rest to me for that privileged. That is the cold blooded truth about living with sickle cell and malaria. What did the Africans do to deserve this. And don't give me some bullshit religious non-answer.

Oh and a better definition of evolution would be the accumulation of all the beneficial mutations, since all the non-beneficial mutations would have killed off their hosts and thus weeded out their gene pools from the genetic record.

"Hmm, I can think of two arguments. One, genetic mutations can be produced by scientist and individuals under the right circumstances. God doesn't need to be involved to make it happen."

Of course He does. He's "involved" in everything.

"To much sun, to much exposure to radioactive material, etc."

What makes you think God's not "involved" in that?

"Second, God may be able to give you cancer, or two heads, but what motivation would he have to give it to a fetus or an infant?"

Ah, you see? You just don't UNDERSTAND why God would do that; therefore, you assume He wouldn't. God has reasons we can't comprehend. Ask the man blind from birth. He didn't do anything to deserve being blind, nor did his parents. He was blind that God might be glorified. All things are not only designed, but designed for that singular purpose.

"What did that child do to deserve such a fate? You can can't answer that without such religious non-answer, but it makes a lot more sense if you look at genetic defects for exactly what they are, unthinking, uncaring changes that happened to develop."

No, it's the same answer. Something with an unknown or inconceivable (to us) motivation. All you're saying is that it can't be God because it's too random. But God has already told us we can't understand Him. So you don't need the answer of chaos, unless you just want to accept it for no reason.

"A caring God in my opinion wouldn't force such a thing to happen to a child...but he might have created a automatic process that leads to "uncontrolled" results at times."

A key term here is "in my opinion." Which has no effect on God and His actions. And if, indeed, He IS God, why would He create something uncontrollable? In a sense, He did, because He gave US free will. But He didn't give it to some "process" of random evolution. He gave it to His beloved Creation, which He made in His own image (in other words, US.)

"And that appears to be what the genetic defect phenomenon is, and lies at the heart of evolution."

That's odd. You seem to be saying that evolution is, essentially, the mistake God didn't make.

"Because all evolution is is a series of mutations that occurred over time, that benefited life instead of killing it....a perfect example of the unthinking and uncaring and unintelligent nature of mutation is the sickle cell mutation found in Africa. This mutation is the perfect double edged sword. If you get two copies of the sickle cell gene from your parents, you are pretty much doomed to die. If you only get one copy, that copy is likely to save you from Malaria. But if you get no copies from parent's of that gene, you are highly susceptible to catching and dying from malaria...or at least you were until the last 50 years."

And this can't be God because......?

"Looking at this scenario...tell me what thinking mutative process would put humans in this predicament? Its like God telling us if you want to live you have to shelter the terrorist you'd just as soon kill."

Most of what God has done is difficult to understand--most egregiously His incomprehensible decision to allow human life to continue after the way it blatantly disobeyed Him and proved itself unworthy of His love. Yet He loves so much, He incarnates as His Son, Jesus, to be born in a stinking manger and die on a bloody, dirty cross--murdered by His beloved for a crime only He could lawfully commit.

Knowing what God has done for me makes me very very hesitant to second-guess Him on anything else. Had I been Him, I myself would be in Hell today.

"Actually Kerry, a better analogy would be that God struck a non-verbal agreement with the African's in the Malaria belt and said I will let you keep 50% of your kids, but you must sacrifice the rest to me for that privileged. That is the cold blooded truth about living with sickle cell and malaria. What did the Africans do to deserve this."

The same thing they did to "deserve" life in the first place. Nothing.

We do not "deserve" to be here. We have done nothing to earn our right to be here. God has granted us the miracle of life, and it is in His hands to shape that life as He sees fit.

"And don't give me some bullshit religious non-answer."

I suppose I've disappointed you. But what were you hoping for? What answer would you consider acceptable?

"Oh and a better definition of evolution would be the accumulation of all the beneficial mutations, since all the non-beneficial mutations would have killed off their hosts and thus weeded out their gene pools from the genetic record."

Actually, evolution per se is merely a genetic change that passes from one generation to another. What you are talking about is a THEORY about the metahistorical meaning of genetic change in the aggregate.

By the way, this alliance (the topic of the post) has not sprung, Ahtena-like from the head of some homosexual Zeus. It's been in the works on the (you'll excuse the expression) down-low for quite a while. Here's a listing from the 2006 Out and Equal Summit:

"ERG Food for Thought: How McDonald's is Learning to Push the Envelope Kevin Bradley, Richard Ellis, Jesse Pamperin, Liz Winfeld M-GLAN is McDonald's Gay, Lesbian, and Ally Network. M-GLAN embarked upon a unique learning experience, taking steps into uncharted territories for this cultural giant. McDonald's made news when it included sexual orientation in its nondiscrimination policy and it made news again when it beat its competitors to the punch with domestic partner benefits. Now M-GLAN—comprised of two (US and Worldwide) corporate headquarters, and three North American Divisions divided into 21 regions; an organization that not only has a corporate ownership base but also an owner operator base—is bravely addressing a problem common to so many ERGs. That is, how do you get membership, movement, and activity out beyond the "safe" walls of the HQ? Come find out what such an effort entails and how it's being addressed at a household name."

Now that McDonald's is out of the closet, let's see how long it takes the American public to decide that the Clown has no clothes.

I'll be over at Wendy's and Chik-Fil-A. See ya.

"Actually Kerry, a better analogy would be that God struck a non-verbal agreement with the African's..."

Going over this again, I really must ask.

What, exactly, is a "non-verbal agreement?" The usual legal polarities are a "verbal agreement" or a "written contract." I don't know what you mean by this, unless you mean He was winking at them.

"Ahtena-like"

That, of course, should be "Athena-like."

Sorry.

The same thing they did to "deserve" life in the first place. Nothing.

We do not "deserve" to be here. We have done nothing to earn our right to be here. God has granted us the miracle of life, and it is in His hands to shape that life as He sees fit.

"And don't give me some bullshit religious non-answer."

I suppose I've disappointed you. But what were you hoping for? What answer would you consider acceptable?

As I suspected a BS religious non-answer. You can't provide a plausible answer for why God would allow kids to be born with two heads or why a good chunk of Africa has to give away 50% of there children to Malaria or sickle cell, in order that the rest may live. Thus scientists are the ones that have to come up with the answer....and they have, and it makes perfect sense...if the process that allows these things to occur doesn't think or give a shit.

The bible falls short, and science picks up the slack.

Kerry,

Here's an even more nonsensical, yet simpler situation for you to provide us all an answer for. If we assume that God "intelligently" designed humans, why would he have created a procreation process that creates a living fetus that is so genetically screwed up that it will never live to the point where the mother and father of it realize they created a living being. I'm talking of course about those fetuses that only live a few seconds, minutes or hours after they are created...an thus nobody but God would ever know that these humans existed...not at least until 21 century science unveiled the genetic anomalies that lead to these fetuses with no future.

I mean this is the equivalent of God sitting in a room by himself with nobody else watching, playing a game he created, that has no winning scenario, and yet playing the game anyway for his own personal amusement.

If the system were intelligent, it would never allow a living fetus who's life will never be appreciated by anyone because of genetic defect that kills it before anyone but God knows it exists.

that should have read...it would never allow a living fetus "to be created" whose life....

But its perfectly understand how a fetus with absolutely no future could be created by a non-thinking,non-caring, non-intelligent system...that thrives on the creation of defects, some that allow a being to thrive, and some that kill.

"Here's an even more nonsensical, yet simpler situation for you to provide us all an answer for. If we assume that God "intelligently" designed humans, why would he have created a procreation process that creates a living fetus that is so genetically screwed up that it will never live to the point where the mother and father of it realize they created a living being. I'm talking of course about those fetuses that only live a few seconds, minutes or hours after they are created...an thus nobody but God would ever know that these humans existed...not at least until 21 century science unveiled the genetic anomalies that lead to these fetuses with no future."

I'm sorry. You used the words "of course" here, but it's not clear to me how you (or, as you say, anyone but God) know this happens.

I don't know why God does everything He does. Perhaps something important in the metaphysical calculus changes between the intent to have a child and the moment the child returns to Heaven. Free will allows everyone involved on Earth at the time to have some impact. It may be that a decision is made that changes the impact of the baby-to-be. I don't know, but I'm not troubled by that not-knowing. Particularly since you can't provide an answer as to the why, either--your answer is because there is no direction to begin with. If I don't require an answer of my system (God), and you don't require an answer of yours, why are you asking ME to require an answer of mine?

"I mean this is the equivalent of God sitting in a room by himself with nobody else watching, playing a game he created, that has no winning scenario, and yet playing the game anyway for his own personal amusement."

Could be. Doesn't matter. God does what He does, and He owes us no explanation.

"If the system were intelligent, it would never allow a living fetus who's life will never be appreciated by anyone because of genetic defect that kills it before anyone but God knows it exists."

Not so. That is the system YOU would create, if YOU were to design it. Just because YOU don't understand the point of it doesn't mean the system isn't "intelligent." It just means you are less so.

Reminds me of the way my Pastor says some people pray. They approach God with the attitude of, "Well, here's the situation, God. And here's what needs to be done. With my ideas, and your power, we could really go places!"

God is much wiser than you (or I), His system is far more complex than we can comprehend, and it is entirely within His purview to decide what to do with it. We are just blessed to have breath day after day, and the hope of Heaven when our breathing stops. It is all He promises, and far more than we deserve.

And now, back to our story.

Previously, on "McDonald's Signs On To Gay Agenda":

"And what exact agenda is that?"

It is much more far-reaching than the silly behavioral tweaks you offer in your answer. The primary problem is that this multi-billion dollar company will, no doubt, follow the lead of others of its ilk, putting "community development" money and programs at the beck and call of the GLBT community, fighting marriage protection legislation and pushing gay marriage and gay adoption. It is also likely that they will take the profits earned by serving the families of America to sponsor events and programs that those families would vomit if exposed to.

Example. The 25 Center in New York has corporate sponsorship from American Airlines, JP Morgan, Credit Suisse, Aetna, Prudential, IBM, etc. Some of the activities engaged in by the Center are:

**Women's CoffeeHouse presents Janet Mayes Janet Mayes reads from her latest manuscript "Beyond the Horse's Eye." This novel is a character-driven science fiction/fantasy about emotional, philosophical and political dilemmas in a universe where LGBT relationships between various intergalactic species are the norm. Janet Mayes is a psychologist in private practice in Chelsea, born and raised in Washington Heights, Mayes came of age in the 60's, when she participated in the Anti-Vietnam War movement and other political causes. Coffee and dessert available at no charge. This is a women-only event. $ 6.00.**

**Dating Madness: HIV+ Gay Men Tired of the bar scene and overcrowded events where you can't really connect? Tonight, double your chances of meeting fabulous men who want to make meaningful, personal and sincere connections for friendship or romance. Meet in mini dates about 2-3 minutes, meet in groups of 4 with stimulating questions, and in groups based on areas of mutual interest and values. Run by matchmaker/comedian. Great success rate. Limited participants. $20 at door, discount online. Must arrive on time.**

and

**The Gender Identity Project (GIP) presents: GenderTech7, A community event for trans-people, friends, allies and providers Toby Meltzer, M.D. Gender-Confirming Surgeries....Please us join as Toby Meltzer, M.D., one of the world’s foremost providers of surgical services to the trans-communities, presents gender-confirming surgeries, with a focus on genital surgeries (SRS, GRS) Dr. Meltzer will offer a PowerPoint presentation of surgeries and will leave time at the end of the presentation for questions and answers. GenderTech is a workshop series offered by the Gender Identity Project and seeks to highlight clinical issues of relevance to the trans-communities and those who offer services to them. GenderTech is open to trans-people, friends, allies and providers."

You can't tell me that the majority of McDonald's customers want to contribute to events like those.

McDonald's has every right to use its corporate money for whatever it wants (providing it's legal). I have the right not to give them any more of mine.

"I mean this is the equivalent of God sitting in a room by himself with nobody else watching, playing a game he created, that has no winning scenario, and yet playing the game anyway for his own personal amusement."

Could be. Doesn't matter. God does what He does, and He owes us no explanation.

So God could act like Josef Mengele and you wouldn't ask why or even given a crap. Just wonderful. Its this same unquestioning mindset that allows the most evil of people commit unspeakable acts, and the most innocent to do nothing about it...

I'll follow up on the rest later...

"So God could act like Josef Mengele and you wouldn't ask why or even given a crap."

If He so chose, and no, I wouldn't. Of course, God wouldn't act like that, because He has no curiosity; He knows everything.

"Just wonderful. Its this same unquestioning mindset that allows the most evil of people commit unspeakable acts, and the most innocent to do nothing about it..."

No, you misunderstand. I didn't say a HUMAN BEING could do so. I said GOD could. I don't question God, but I certainly question human beings.

Look, given what God has proven Himself to be, the degree to which His omniscience works everything out, in ways we cannot ask or imagine, and the enormity of what He keeps track of, I do not question Him. I'm just glad He lets me live at the moment, and look forward to the Day to come.

What good, by the way, do you think it would do to question God? YOU aren't even questioning God; you're just petulantly pretending He's not there, and blaming everything He does on chaos and chance. Again, since you don't approve of the direction, you refuse credit to the director.

New agers claim to BE God. You just claim to be SMARTER than God. Both contentions are ridiculous. It's just easier to tell when it comes from the mouth of Shirley McClaine.

PS: McDonald's is going to lose a lot of business from this move.

If He so chose, and no, I wouldn't. Of course, God wouldn't act like that, because He has no curiosity; He knows everything.

If God is actively involved in creating and killing fetus for his own amusement, before either the parent's or the child can appreciate either the birth or the death...I'd say that qualifies as acting like Joseph Mengele.

But I personally don't think he is actively participating. He created an imperfect world for imperfect beings, and an imperfect method of populating the world with life...a system that doesn't require his active participation, a process called evolution.

"If God is actively involved in creating and killing fetus for his own amusement, before either the parent's or the child can appreciate either the birth or the death...I'd say that qualifies as acting like Joseph Mengele."

But you assume it's "for his own amusement." *I* assume it's for a greater purpose in His plan. I don't understand it, you don't understand it; He does.

"But I personally don't think he is actively participating."

That's because you're not a Christian. The Bible doesn't give us that option. Those of us who believe What we read understand that God is actively participating in every aspect of all our lives. There are few messages clearer in the Bible than the message that He is there and He cares.

"He created an imperfect world for imperfect beings, and an imperfect method of populating the world with life...a system that doesn't require his active participation, a process called evolution."

No, He created a PERFECT world and put imperfect people IN it, who promptly messed it all up. That's why there is sin, death, and evil in the world. A fact called "human frailty," stemming from a moment called "original sin."

"Evolution" is just your theory of how it all might have gone if there weren't God. And it still doesn't explain everything.

No, He created a PERFECT world and put imperfect people IN it, who promptly messed it all up. That's why there is sin, death, and evil in the world. A fact called "human frailty," stemming from a moment called "original sin."

Kerry,

This is an interesting comment. If he made the perfect world, and all we can do is screw it up, then why are you hell bent on changing the world that exists, and replacing it with one that benefits you alone? By your own words...the "wilderness" (defined as the world before we touched it) is perfect. So you should be the most staunch environmentalist on this planet! After all environmentalists are the ones that want to keep it as close to how God made it as possible.

And you'll notice in Noah's tale that Noah didn't just collect the animals that were usual to man, like sheep, goats, pigs, etc. He collected elephants, deer, etc. Another perfect sign that if God intended for us to turn the entire planet into our parking lot, he wouldn't have bothered letting them escape the flood....

useful to man, not usual...

"If he made the perfect world, and all we can do is screw it up, then why are you hell bent on changing the world that exists, and replacing it with one that benefits you alone?"

How in the world do you come to that conclusion?

"By your own words...the "wilderness" (defined as the world before we touched it) is perfect."

But it's not now. And it was perfect WHEN we touched it, as well. It was not until Adam and Eve SINNED that it fell. Now man can only be redeemed by Jesus, and the planet by God's apocalyptic regeneration of it.

"So you should be the most staunch environmentalist on this planet! After all environmentalists are the ones that want to keep it as close to how God made it as possible."

No, they don't. They want to displace man in favor of other species and the planet itself. That's not God's plan.

"And you'll notice in Noah's tale that Noah didn't just collect the animals that were usual to man, like sheep, goats, pigs, etc. He collected elephants, deer, etc. Another perfect sign that if God intended for us to turn the entire planet into our parking lot, he wouldn't have bothered letting them escape the flood...."

God only preserved life on the earth for the sake of Noah, the one righteous man. The animals are for his USE. As soon as God brought Noah and his family out of the flood, He told Noah he could eat the animals, as well as the plants, and that He (God) would even make them afraid of people to make it easier for us.

See: ***"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."***

"Evolution" is just your theory of how it all might have gone if there weren't God. And it still doesn't explain everything.

You are wrong.

Evolution is fact. Natural Selection is the theory.

You're right, it doesn't explain everything, it explains what we've figured out. The Bible is just mythology that tries to explain everything but just ends up looking foolish.

Denial of evolution, when coming from an educated adult is sickening and sad.

"You are wrong.

Evolution is fact. Natural Selection is the theory."

That, as the man said, depends on what you mean by "evolution." If you are talking about transition within species, no one argues against that. It's even in the Bible. But if you are talking about what is commonly referred to as "evolution"--the theory that humans developed from other life forms over time--that is still theoretical, because there are no transitional life forms to substantiate it, and you can't duplicate it in a laboratory setting.

"You're right, it doesn't explain everything, it explains what we've figured out. The Bible is just mythology that tries to explain everything but just ends up looking foolish."

No, the Bible tells you what happened "in the beginning." How, exactly, does it look "foolish?"

"Denial of evolution, when coming from an educated adult is sickening and sad."

The automatic rejection of every contrary theory, by the use of personal attacks, is immature and close-minded. Not to mention unscientific.

BTW, has anyone seen "Expelled?" It's Ben Stein's new movie about intelligent design, but it's not showing around here.

"BTW, has anyone seen "Expelled?" It's Ben Stein's new movie about intelligent design, but it's not showing around here."

Oops. I take that back. I just checked again, and it's not opening until April 18th. And it is playing my local theater after all. I hadn't checked for a month or so when I wrote that.

God only preserved life on the earth for the sake of Noah, the one righteous man. The animals are for his USE. As soon as God brought Noah and his family out of the flood, He told Noah he could eat the animals, as well as the plants, and that He (God) would even make them afraid of people to make it easier for us.

For the sake of Noah huh? So how the hell was Noah going to get down to the bottom of the ocean and eat Tubeworms? And what about those poisonous frogs, snakes, insects, berries, that will kill a man in heartbeat if he ate them? And I have news for you a domesticated animal that doesn't fear us is a lot easier to catch and kill than one that is afraid of us. So its a bunch of horse pucky that something afraid of us is easier to catch and eat.

But it's not now. And it was perfect WHEN we touched it, as well. It was not until Adam and Eve SINNED that it fell. Now man can only be redeemed by Jesus, and the planet by God's apocalyptic regeneration of it.

"So you should be the most staunch environmentalist on this planet! After all environmentalists are the ones that want to keep it as close to how God made it as possible."

No, they don't. They want to displace man in favor of other species and the planet itself. That's not God's plan.

If the wilderness isn't the world as God created it, I don't know what is? Because miraculously the world will always revert to this "natural" state if man leaves and walks off. Just look at any plot of land man has been forced to abandon. You don't see God maintaining the buildings and side walks and asphalt we put down there...he brings back in the weeds, and the trees and the birds, and the wild animals. If God didn't prefer this state...the very state I might add that you depend on for the food you eat, and the air you breath. Don't believe me...how about you want to bet that if we destroyed all the things that man hasn't already altered...that the world man created (his asphalt jungles, and farm land...that none of it would survive without the rest of the "natural world" supporting it.

"because there are no transitional life forms to substantiate it..."

Yes, there are, for example: Tiktaalik! among others.

"and you can't duplicate it in a laboratory setting"

No, you can't. Evolution happened over many millions of years, the change was not noticeable within a life time, or even hundreds of lifetimes.

"The automatic rejection of every contrary theory, by the use of personal attacks, is immature and close-minded. Not to mention unscientific."

When someone fails to understand the science, or is blinded by the science due to a religious opinion based on superstition and mythology, THAT is immature and close-minded. So again, I say, the denial of evolution, when coming from an educated adult, is sickening and sad.

The new film "Expelled" is a joke, there was a preview in Minnesota and Professor PZ Meyers was told to leave as he waited in line to see a screening of the movie:

PZ Meyers gets Expelled!!

ironically, standing next to Professor Meyers, was Richard Dawkins, who was able to attend the screening and give a review of the joke film.

Above should read, "When someone fails to understand the science, or is blinded from the science due to a religious opinion based on superstition and mythology, THAT is immature and close-minded."

Kerry,

No transitional fossils? Horse pucky. Here alone are all the ones that have been documented for mankind or offshoots along the way. Not necessarily in the correct chronological order..

Australopithecus anamensis Australopithecus afarensis Australopithecus africanus Homo habilis Homo rudolfensis Homo georgicus Homo ergaster Homo erectus Homo cepranensis Homo antecessor Homo heidelbergensis Homo rhodesiensis Homo neanderthalensis Homo floresiensis

Kerry,

Here is another example of an exotic evolutionary quirk where scientists can offer a very plausible example, where as you reading Genesis wouldn't have a clue.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/04/10/frog.indonesia.ap/index.html

You of course would tell me God created this frog for use by man. Well its pretty damn obvious this frog isn't seen by man, much less used by him very often. What's it been 30 years since a guy actively hunting them has seen one? So please tell me why the hell this frog exists, and why is it that god made it so the frog's biological niche was so selective that if conditions changed in the slightest it would probably die out? Why do I say it would probably die out...because its the fast moving, heavily oxygenated environment that allows this animal to breath the way it does (ie without lungs). If someone like you or I came through and bulldozed the damn place they wouldn't have alot of places to move to, where as we humans have the capacity to live in alot of places.

Science of course know how this animal exists. Its lived in a very small unique environment that has been stable long enough that the selective pressures of the environment (ie the fast streams with high oxygen) allowed an animal through favorable genetic mutation to survive and thrive in that environment. But this was a process that took a long long long time. Because no scientist will tell you that evolution can happen overnight, especially when have relatively long life cycles. Which is why scientists are worried about what we are doing to the planet. Because animals rather than being able to adapt to our changes, go extinct instead. And we keep it up, and eventually we are going to kill of the insects, microbes, and animals that we and our food sources rely on to live....

All we have to do is look at what the impact of our messing around with world's bee populations almost did to our food supply. I came very close and may still impact 50% or more of our food supply.

"For the sake of Noah huh?"

Yes, for the sake of Noah. God was ready to destroy the Earth, but Noah was the only righteous man. For his sake, God did not destroy it all.

"So how the hell was Noah going to get down to the bottom of the ocean and eat Tubeworms? And what about those poisonous frogs, snakes, insects, berries, that will kill a man in heartbeat if he ate them?"

I don't know. Doesn't matter. That's God's business.

"And I have news for you a domesticated animal that doesn't fear us is a lot easier to catch and kill than one that is afraid of us."

Not if that animal (and I don't recall the word "domestic" being used; God was talking about them all) is aggressive and hungry.

"If the wilderness isn't the world as God created it, I don't know what is?"

That really shouldn't be a question, but I'll answer it anyway. No, you don't "know what is." None of us does, because none of us were present to see a world free of sin and death, the world of perfection that God created for His companion, man.

"Because miraculously the world will always revert to this "natural" state if man leaves and walks off. Just look at any plot of land man has been forced to abandon. You don't see God maintaining the buildings and side walks and asphalt we put down there...he brings back in the weeds, and the trees and the birds, and the wild animals. If God didn't prefer this state...the very state I might add that you depend on for the food you eat, and the air you breath. Don't believe me...how about you want to bet that if we destroyed all the things that man hasn't already altered...that the world man created (his asphalt jungles, and farm land...that none of it would survive without the rest of the "natural world" supporting it."

All of which is tainted by sin and death, and therefore not "perfect."

"The new film "Expelled" is a joke.."

No, it's not a joke. It's a documentary.

"there was a preview in Minnesota and Professor PZ Meyers was told to leave as he waited in line to see a screening of the movie:

PZ Meyers gets Expelled!!"

As well he should have. It was an invitation-only event, and he was not invited. Thus, he was turned away by security.

"ironically, standing next to Professor Meyers, was Richard Dawkins, who was able to attend the screening and give a review of the joke film."

Yes, he was able to EVADE security at an invitation-only event to which he was not invited. However, when he started asking questions, he was not removed, because he apparently was considered an amusing diversion.

"You of course would tell me God created this frog for use by man."

God created this frog for whatever reason He did. I don't know, and you don't either. But assigning its origin to nothing in particular doesn't help any.

"Well its pretty damn obvious this frog isn't seen by man, much less used by him very often. What's it been 30 years since a guy actively hunting them has seen one? So please tell me why the hell this frog exists, and why is it that god made it so the frog's biological niche was so selective that if conditions changed in the slightest it would probably die out? Why do I say it would probably die out...because its the fast moving, heavily oxygenated environment that allows this animal to breath the way it does (ie without lungs). If someone like you or I came through and bulldozed the damn place they wouldn't have alot of places to move to, where as we humans have the capacity to live in alot of places."

So what? Just because we don't know how they fit in doesn't mean they don't.

"Science of course know how this animal exists. Its lived in a very small unique environment that has been stable long enough that the selective pressures of the environment (ie the fast streams with high oxygen) allowed an animal through favorable genetic mutation to survive and thrive in that environment. But this was a process that took a long long long time. Because no scientist will tell you that evolution can happen overnight, especially when have relatively long life cycles. Which is why scientists are worried about what we are doing to the planet. Because animals rather than being able to adapt to our changes, go extinct instead. And we keep it up, and eventually we are going to kill of the insects, microbes, and animals that we and our food sources rely on to live...."

So what?

"All we have to do is look at what the impact of our messing around with world's bee populations almost did to our food supply. I came very close and may still impact 50% or more of our food supply."

And?

"As well he should have. It was an invitation-only event, and he was not invited. Thus, he was turned away by security."

You're misinformed, no surprise. The event was NOT by invitation only, it was a free screening, anyone could attend, they made the announcement online and Professor Myers even registered for that. As for Dawkins "sneaking" in, you're again misinformed. As the event was NOT invitation only and PZ was kicked out of line, producing great publicity regarding the devious kind of people producing this film. Not only was PZ Myers kicked out, but he was IN the film! Why would you kick someone out of line if they're in your "documentary"?? They should be welcomed to attend! Dawkins made an appearance in the film too. suffice to say, the makers of this film are in over their heads, there are many problems with the release of this film, it's been delayed, scientists that appeared in it were misled and then, there’s the small problem with the completely delusional and unscientific nature of the film. I know you’re probably not very familiar with the science, which would be the reason that you didn’t address ANY of those points I made; understand the universe outside of a theology is very difficult, you have my sympathy, but if you don’t try to understand our world without those ancient tribal cult glasses, you’ll be left in behind. Deniers of evolution are a small group of ignorant religious fundamentalists and unfortunately, the knowledge gained from science in this day and age, makes fools of them. Believe in God by all means, but don't doubt proven science.

another transitional fossil:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7339508.stm

A snake with legs, sweet!

SSE,

Nice! Oh and Kerry did you know that transitional fossils aren't always obvious? Did you know that even though a whale has fins, it still has 10 finger bones just like humans? Perfect example of how a common skeletal structure in mammals has changed over time, and yet on the outside can look very different.