Selwyn,

1. Since when was America a white's only nation? 2. Many Asian's coming to America are hardly 3rd world, many of them are brighter than the average "white" American. 3. Perhaps your finally getting a taste of what "native americans" felt when Europeans invaded America and basically took it over for themselves. Now all of a sudden you have a problem when a few of them decide to take it back? What was it I heard the other day, seeing the border issue from the view point of Mexicans along the border. We didn't cross the border, the border moved over us...that's right, California, New Mexico, and Texas and Arizona were all part of Mexico before "we" took it over.

Saw something else the other day that surprised me. 60%+ of Californians when asked about the immigration problem, favored Bush's and the democrats position. Kind of strange don't you think if they saw the problem as an invasion. If anyone should be able to complain it would be Californians...but they realize unlike the rest of us, who picks America's food.

No no no, ahmanrah. It's all very simple, really. Here, just put on these blinders, that's right.

Good. Now, pay close attention. Illegal immigrants are law breakers. That's the problem, focus on that. Are you focusing? Stay focused. Now you've got it. C-r-i-m-i-n-a-l-s. That's right. All 15-30 million of those criminals must go. That's the solution. Law broken, kick out the law breakers. Done. No more problem.

Who will pick America's food? You're peeking around those blinders, aren't you? That's not a problem of the law, and we're the party of law and order. That's a problem for farmers. Oh, and if you still think it's a problem? Then you're a terrorist, because leaky borders will allow terrorists in - therefore you must love terrorists, therefore you *are* a terrorist. Quod erat demonstrandum.

PD,

What's so funny is that Selwyn is so blinded by his "anti-Mexican" stance that he doesn't see the opportunity to save the republican party that stares him right in the face. Mexicans are by and large social conservatives. The only reason they vote with the Democrats is because the Democrats have had a better record of looking after their interests. And that's the key...until Republicans get away from the white-only club mentality, their greatest allies among other "socially conservative" groups, will elude them.

Very amusing now that I think about it. For one, if Bush pushed Congress to adopt the Senate immigration plan, or something even more lib'ral, say amnesty on a large scale, they quite possibly could have gotten themselves 10+ million new voters over the coming years. Enough to sway future elections.

Instead they waffled, squandered that opportunity ("but... brown skin ... they're Mexicans!"), and here we are with the Dems holding onto a double-barreled Congress. Heh-heh.

The other interesting thing is, you'll never catch an American conservative talking about the other immigration problem: Canadians and Europeans. Caucasians, mostly. NYC is jammed with Irish and Canadian illegals, and a fair number of British, Spanish and Germs, too. Quite a few Haitian and Jamaican too. Not a problem for me, but it's where a lot of bartender, waiting and construction jobs go, here.

Sure, it's the minority percentage of the overall immigration issue, but the hypocrisy of conservatives is exposed for what it is: racism. Let's arm ourselves with semi-auto weapons, head down to the border, and ward off that "invasion." Hey, if you get a chance, check out "30 Days." Season 2, espisode 1 has a Minute Man member living with a family of eight illegal Mexican immigrants for 30 days. Quite, quite telling.

plausible,

you answered your own question but then proceeded to go even farther. No-one is protesting the number of Irish because they in fact are such a small percentage. the vast majority are coming from south of the border.

now on the other hand, would you agree that the Irish bore the brunto of the immigration backlash about 80 years ago like the Mexicans are now?

how is it racism to focus the attention where the problem lies?

and do you know what the US response was 80 years ago to the immigration wave? limit immigration which is exactly what we should do now.

p.s. ahmanrah

who picked America's food before the great immigration wave to the last two decades?

p.s. ahmanrah

who picked America's food before the great immigration wave to the last two decades?

Does it really matter? Whoever was picking them then, isn't picking them now, and neither are their children. Immediately of course your going to say the Mexicans stole jobs. And to that I say crap. Until the day arrives that we pay double for our groceries and don't complain about it, is the day those jobs be come competitive. And that goes for pickers in America, coffee growers in Ethiopa and Indonesia, and where ever labor is exploited to give us cheap food, cheap clothes, and cheap electronics.

So you have a choice, complain about Mexicans and foreigners stealing jobs and ruining America, or pay them along with everyone else what they are worth, and become a little less "wealthy" yourself. You decide.

ahmanrah,

I do not ever recall lettuce pickers being a high paying job, before the immigration wave or after.

if vegetables became costly because of high wages in the US, we would begin to import more lettuce rather than pay double for it. that is how the market works.

food costs have always been low in the US due to a sound and diverse agricultural industry

"And to that I say crap."

Oh, that's what you say to everything. In fact, it's all you ever say.

"Until the day arrives that we pay double for our groceries and don't complain about it, is the day those jobs be come competitive."

Well, maybe you have a shot at that. After all, we're paying about five times as much for coffee as we ever imagined ten years ago!

"And that goes for pickers in America, coffee growers in Ethiopa and Indonesia, and where ever labor is exploited to give us cheap food, cheap clothes, and cheap electronics."

No cheap coffee, though.

Rats.

Kerry,

Question is, who are you paying the extra money for coffee to? The growers, or starbucks? Do you even know. There is a new documentary coming out that digs into the reality of the industry. Starbucks didn't want to talk to anybody on camera, until they knew the shit was about to hit the fan. Out comes the spin machine.

if vegetables became costly because of high wages in the US, we would begin to import more lettuce rather than pay double for it

Do you think maybe reason we aren't importing so are vegetables is because they have been able to keep prices low with illegal migrant labor? Again, the reasons Americans aren't picking the vegetables is because nobody wants the job. The day someone legal wants the job is the day the job goes overseas. So people should stop whining about migrant farm workers stealing jobs, until the day arrives that they are willing to pay the higher prices required to attract legal workers.

yes, that is correct. food is cheap. however, farm workers certainly aren't the only industry where illegals have taken over. look at the construction industry and a multitude of service industry jobs. raise the minimum wage and watch as the incentive to come to the US is even greater. 2 dollars more an hour!! ay chihuahua!! increase the wages for farm workers and you will attract more illegals than legals.

food will remain cheap regardless of the illegals here. if the price gets too expensive, it will imported or people will not buy it plain and simple.

you can buy an expresso in say Colombia or the Dominican Republic or Argentina for say 50 to 75 cents. the same drink at Starbucks is about $3.00 or $4.00

raise the minimum wage and watch as the incentive to come to the US is even greater. 2 dollars more an hour!! ay chihuahua!! increase the wages for farm workers and you will attract more illegals than legals.

Ben,

That might be true, but I think some Americans would still have a problem if the immigrants were legal. People finger the immigrants as the problem, but really the problem is the companies that hire them, and the governments that don't enforce rules already on the books. Alot of the businesses working with illegals are shady as it is, all you have to see are a few programs on how those workers are treated (conditions mind you that no American would put up with).

That comes back to my original point, if the companies brought legal aliens into America, and the same problem occured, would you still have a problem with them stealing jobs. Is this situation really any different than shipping car and electronics manufactoring overseas?

Eventually the United States has to realize on some level that it has priced its labor out of the market. And the only way to solve that is to cut the standard of living, tax imports through the roof (protectionism never works), or make sure that America's population is so educated that the only people who qualify for America's jobs are Americans. We're not doing a very good job of that on to fronts. A college education is overpriced, and our primary education is increasingly becoming the laugh stock of the world, because of lack of leadership, accountability, and efficient spending of resources.

ahmanrah,

why do you need a PhD to get a job getting picking broccoli? I don't get your post.

Waaaaaaaa....waaaaaa...waaaaaa.....who's gonna pick the produce?????? Call a waaaaaambulance!!!!!

Hint: We have a nice American way of inventing machines to replace workers.....when we are forced to invent those machines due to a lack of cheap labor. Nice big tree-fruit picking machines that have been developed, eh? Or haven't you seen the specials on the history channel about, due to the lack of illegals to pick certain ftuits, the dreaded farm machinery industry made huge machines that drive over trees, shake the shit outta 'em and collect the fruit all without illegal immigrants in the process?

Go on....whine about the irrelevant issue of "Who's gonna pick our food"......

Go on....point to the Irish. If they're here illegally, I want them just as deported as anyone else here illegally. Oops...there go the completely empty racism claims.

You know, if they really wanted to, most Americans could grow their own vegetables.

Meat, they need help with. But vegetables wouldn't be that tough to be subsistent in (especially at my house, where nobody wants them, anyway.)

I love it when the ignorant point to the Irish (who pick no produce) and only the "produce pickers" of the south of the border illegals.........and ignore that illegals are taking jobs that the Americans DO want. Boston doesn't HAVE a produce picking world, but we've got plenty of illegals and they're not cleaning bathrooms, they're stealing construction jobs from hard-working Americans. Roofers, plumbers, carpenters, finishers, drywallers, painters.......these are the Americans that're losing.

Who's rebuilding New Orleans? Who's building all the new developments in southwest Florida? Illegals...stealing jobs that Americans will do.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain stealing construction jobs. AAAAAAAARGH!!!! Look at the price of lettuce!!!!!!!

Sarge,

Illegals aren't the problem, its the people giving them the jobs.

As far as inventing a machine for every type of vegetable. I suspect if it could be done, it would be done. Somethings you can't just shake the shit out of and get a product people will buy.

And somehow given your tone I suspect you'd have a problem with legal aliens stealing American jobs.

Kerry,

I'd like to see you grow an entire years worth of vegetables on a 1/4 acre lot or less, which is what most Americans have. And where are American's going to bother finding the time, they'd probably higher an illegal to tend their yards...some already do.

BenRhodes,

My comment about PHD's was that some jobs America will not be able to protect, giving our high cost of living. So the only way we are going to stay competitive is train people for advanced jobs that nobody else in the world has the skills to do.

Ahmanrah,

there aren't enough high tech jobs available for all americans. besides, business would simply start moving them to India anyway to lower labor costs.

allowing unimpeded immigration into the country to totally take over the construction industry for example is certainly not the answer.

Ahmanrah,

You can grow enough vegetables to eat for yourself in a container in an apartment. Try not trying to grow a whole year's worth at once. It can be done.

"If it could be done, it would be done"--there's your good old American ingenuity, huh?

"My comment about PHD's was that some jobs America will not be able to protect, giving our high cost of living."

Like what? We're not losing PhD jobs. We're producing too many PhD's.

"So the only way we are going to stay competitive is train people for advanced jobs that nobody else in the world has the skills to do."

Let's think about that for a minute. When have we ever done that? It that what Bill Gates did? No one in the world except Bill Gates had the skills to invent what he invented? Which he got by dropping out of (or being thrown out of, depending on who you talk to) college? No. It wasn't some unique SKILL. It was his ingenuity.

What about Sam Walton? Did he have skills that no one else in the world could have duplicated? He opened a GROCERY STORE, for goodness' sake! Nobody "trained" him for that--"we" sure didn't!

And how about Ted Turner? Did he have skills no one else in the world had? No.

We don't need to train people to do what NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD can do. We need to train them to do what EVERYONE else in the world can do, then get out of their way and let them figure out how to do it BETTER.

80% of American jobs are service jobs. So what? America's has been built by people who realized that they didn't just want a "job." They wanted to run their own business, do something better than anyone else, create something new--and that's never going to be the vast majority of people. It's always going to be a few people, who provide work for the vast majority.

If you want a better job, make one. It's not easy, and (from personal experience) it can take multiple tries. And while you're doing it, you may have to take a lot of jobs you don't want to do. But you just keep going.

And you don't blame the economy, or the president, or the people who are doing better than you. They are not your enemy--they should be your role models.

Speaking of immigration:

Take note of the unexpected popularity of the show "Ugly Betty." And watch this--her heroic father was just revealed to be not only an illegal immigrant, but one who murdered a man in his home country (the abusive husband of the woman he ran off with and married). Culturally, it will be very interesting to see how they handle this story arc--and how the audience reacts.

Another culture note on the immigration question. You may be familiar with "Dora the Explorer," the somewhat odd children's show in which a computer game character has adventures and teaches children Spanish. Now her friend "Diego" has spun off his own show. And there's a new addition to the Hispanic cartoon world, "Handy Manny," about a Hispanic repairman and his talking tools. Responding to a need, or attempting to create one?