Let start with your inability or more accurately, your unwillingness to see the difference between what Sen. Lott's comments and these specific comments.

"I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either." - Trent Lott

Please tell me how that is racist and calling someone "Uncle Tom" and pelting them with oreos is not...

How can you attack the author when you're the one with the inability to see the difference?

This is annoying but hardly surprising. The Democratic Party is the party fo tolerance and understanding, if you agree with them.

Dem campaign slogan: "Do as I say not as I do".

"I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either." - Trent Lott

Before I move toward a meaningless dialog, what do you know (Truly know?) about this statement?

What do you know about "Uncle Tom or Aunt Condie?"

What do you think Aaron would say to; "so a few million jews were killed, we've acknowledged it happened now lets move on, change the subject?"

Why do you think the GOP is in "oh shit" mode regarding the black vote after hurricane Katrina?

If you see my comments to Aaron as an attack then you're standing with him. That's why he was called a racist, bigot plus a few other choice comments at the Sheehan "American" anti-war protest.

Look at history, then ask another question, "of substance."

Dem campaign slogan: "Do as I say not as I do".

Not unlike; "I feel your pain." Unless he was refering to his self-induced pain aka; hangover. In his speach it was important for NO to return to a party town. You really think that's what the people needed to hear? Good Job Brownie!

Just an example of the GOP.

I tossed W's NO speech in the ring as an example, and the neo-cons can thank this president for flying the flag of the true GOP.

Russ is in full-on moonbat mode again, incoherant and rambling.

I think we scored a direct hit. What you see now is the smoke going up from the burning fuel tanks.

"Dem campaign slogan: "Do as I say not as I do"."

"Not unlike; "I feel your pain.""

No they are unlike. They are completely different sayings.

And "I feel your pain" was Bill Clinton's line, by the way.

Try again when you're lucid. Maybe then you'll smear the right president.

"W" in ankle deep water speaking to flooded out Texans..."I feel your pain." MJ, you'r not old enough to remember WJC, and all you know is what you hear or read.

"In an e-mail interview with The Sun, Gilliard said he considers Steele a traitor to his race because he initially dismissed news that his political partner, Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr., held a golfing fund-raiser this year at the Elkridge Club of Baltimore, which at the time had never admitted a black member in its 127-year history."

What you miss in your semi-comatose state is that W has no original lines.

I'm not promoting racism and this site doesn't have anything in it's morality bank that might warrant it's finger pointing.

"My point is that politicians like Michael Steele insult us, use us as whipping boys and then run to their white supporters to show how loyal they are. The suffering and problems of black Americans are beyond their concern," said Gilliard, who lives in New York City. "I find it wildly humorous that Lt. Gov. Steele calls me, a black man, racist, but then refuses to condemn the governor attending an event at an all-white country club."

Ah got me sum pOlitical capital and I'm gonna' use it, wasn't original either. Is that the reason for all the spin from the repubs?

Derek Walker, of the Democratic Party of Maryland, denied that Gilliard's News Blog was part of a coordinated effort.

"This rogue attack on Lt. Gov. Steele is distasteful, despicable and degrading," Walker said. "Democrats are ready to engage Michael Steele in a spirited discussion about the issues that matter to Maryland and to our nation. ... Hatred and bigotry are enemies of the Democratic principles of fairness and opportunity for all people."

It's always good to see no biased slant here at PME, and based on Aarons writings one might think no one had spoken out against the racial comments.

"My point is that politicians like Michael Steele insult us, use us as whipping boys and then run to their white supporters to show how loyal they are. The suffering and problems of black Americans are beyond their concern," said Gilliard, who lives in New York City. "I find it wildly humorous that Lt. Gov. Steele calls me, a black man, racist, but then refuses to condemn the governor attending an event at an all-white country club."

"This rogue attack on Lt. Gov. Steele is distasteful, despicable and degrading," Walker said. "Democrats are ready to engage Michael Steele in a spirited discussion about the issues that matter to Maryland and to our nation. ... Hatred and bigotry are enemies of the Democratic principles of fairness and opportunity for all people."

It would be nice if you didn't

A) Use other peoples quotes without expressly agreeing with them, which leaves you a bigass back door to backpedal right back out of them.

B) Stop disagreeing with yourself please.

I'd like to have a turn arguing with you too, stop hogging all the Russ Russ.

I don't want to argue with you MJ and a debate is beyond you, it escapes you.

It's the lies. The GOP lies, and I'm not saying the GOP has the market cornered. Why all the spin on the Lib/Dem racism? The GOP sounds like a drug addict that was caught stealing.

You want me to stop or continue disagreeing with myself?

I've been reading about these attacks on Steele for a while now. He was the one who had democrats trying to get his credit card records, remember? They are mighty scared of him.

And for good reason, he's a wonderful candidate. He's intelligent, articulate, and very very charismatic. But it's also a double threat, because he's black.

Today, if 2 exact identical men were polled against each other, being black opposed to white would get one a solid few points on the poll. It's certainly politically advantageous. But there's more too it then just that.

Some of it I feel really is racism, alot of these people attacking him are racists. The multi-culti world view has got them thinking of people in demographics and groups instead of individuals, they expect minorities to act in certain ways, otherwise they don't see them as real 'blacks' or real 'asians' or whatever.

But there's a political factor here too, a very dangerous factor for the democrats. Republicans have been trying very hard lately to convince african americans that they aren't the white-sheet wearing klansmen democrats have been telling them they are for the last 30 years.

If african americans didn't see a racist element to the GOP, and if they didn't feel they were 'supposed' to vote 1 way or the other because its 'black', the black vote would split. In any other demographic, 60-40 is considered a landslide, but amongst african americans, 85-15 is considered a huge win too....for the 15! 89%-11% is generally neck and neck.

This is because black people are voting with the (democrat induced) perception of republicans as racists, and also because democrats are just seen as the 'black party'. But if they voted on the actual issues and what they think the countries policies should be, you'd find 60-40 or 40-60 range split in them, with liberal blacks voting for democrats and conservative blacks voting for republicans.

The problem here is, that is the end for modern democrats. A split in african american votes, if all other demographics stay the same, results in a 55/45 close race for republicans and a slew of 60/40 landslides. They CANT win without those votes.

Having visible minorities, especially blacks, in the GOP not only contradicts the concept that the GOP is racist, but it breaks the idea that the democrats are the 'black party' when there as many or more blacks in the GOP. For this reason democrats, politically, even ones who aren't racist, cannot let the GOP nominate and get elected minority candidates and nominees. They want the GOP to be all white men, because that helps them further thier anti-GOP/GOP is racist rhetoric.

So they fight tooth and nail to oppose ANY republican who is a minority, the extra zeal is done really just because they are a minority. It's a race-based aversion to these people...But it's not ALL racist, part of it is political neccessity.

Steele will have a very important race to watch. If the other demographics don't change, and change fast in an overwhelming democrat favor, taking even 30% of the black vote will crush thier party almost for certain.

>>Having visible minorities, especially blacks

By visible you mean token?

Is there anyone left except for Condi?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/10/13/BL2005101300885.html?nav=rss_nation/special

slightly old but still...

"By visible you mean token?"

By visible, I mean unlike the many black conservatives we allready have because they are talented brilliant people, but are not in visible positions that draw attention to the fact that the GOP is the party that (mostly, it tries to) supports color-blindness, whereas the democrats are the party that (mostly, tries to) supports quotes, demographics, 'positive' stereotypes and tokenism.

Wow, you are so full of shit.

http://www.slate.com/id/2067985/

I've been reading about these attacks on Steele for a while now. He was the one who had democrats trying to get his credit card records, remember? They are mighty scared of him.

This, along with your next twelve paragraphs is BS, try again.

MJ, you are good for a laugh. I wonder if you have given thought to the reception you would have gotten if you presented these thoughts to the people attending Rosa's funeral. It's quite likely you would have one-upped "W's" comments.

MJ, you are good for a laugh. I wonder if you have given thought to the reception you would have gotten if you presented these thoughts to the people attending Rosa's funeral. It's quite possible you would have one-upped GWB's comments.

Why do you think the GOP is in "oh shit" mode regarding the black vote after hurricane Katrina?

Um...because the media and some black leaders incorrectly pinned the Katrina thing as a racist thing and asses like you believed every word of it.

If you see my comments to Aaron as an attack then you're standing with him. That's why he was called a racist, bigot plus a few other choice comments at the Sheehan "American" anti-war protest.

No, it's because you're an ass that has shares UY's obsession #1....incorrectly pinning those you politically disagree with as "racists" with th eonly proof being a fig-newton of your imagination.

"W" in ankle deep water speaking to flooded out Texans..."I feel your pain." MJ, you'r not old enough to remember WJC, and all you know is what you hear or read.

Funny....make a CLAIM that it was a NO speech and then refute your own claim by saying it was a Texas speech. And you wonder why you're an ass.

You want me to stop or continue disagreeing with myself?

Yep. As I just pointed out.

Surprise. UY says...nothing, and a poll-nothing and a little MORE nothing...typical.

This, along with your next twelve paragraphs is BS, try again.

Ah yes, once again following the footsteps of UY-logic. Everything you've said is BS, try again. Except in your haste to call it all bullshit, you forgot to do a friggin' search.

For more than two months, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District and the FBI have been investigating the unauthorized obtaining of Mr. Steele's credit report by two former staffers of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC).

You can sit down now. Try again. Maybe you can find some more between the lines racism that doesn't exist anywhere other than in your head.

While the comments are certainly crude, they certainly aren't _only_ racist - they do have some grounding.

While conservatives like to point to someone like Condi to prove they're not color blnd, she has come up through the same ranks as her white coworkers. (Remember the condi rice oil tanker?)

Simply because you are black and in a political office does not mean that you are representing the views of your black constituents. Yes, you'll recieve accusations of being a hypocrit.

Mattk:

Why should black legislators necessarily represent the views "of your black constituents?' Doesn't that by definition relegate the black legislator to representing no more than 13% of the US population and deny them a voice in majority issues?

That sounds very racist to me--the notion that blacks have "black issues" and whites have all the other issues. If you agree with 85% of the population of the US you're a racist?

By the way, did anyone notice how racist Mayor Nagin's statements on NO reconstruction were the other day? He's afraid New Orleans (an unhabitable mess) is going to be "overrun by Mexican workers." Of course, if the residents of New Orleans want it cleaned up and won't do it themselves, how else does he expect it to happen? It's the oldest story in America. It's how the country was built.

>>That sounds very racist to me--the notion that blacks have "black issues" and whites have all the other issues.

If its the case that blacks don't have black issues then that is a very recent development in our history.

While the comments are certainly crude, they certainly aren't _only_ racist - they do have some grounding.

Wow....just wow. So, racism is justified when you disagree with the political ideology of your opponent? Can't say I'm speechless, I expected this attitude.

Point made. Racism is fully justified if it's against your political opposites.

Sarge - Is it racist to expect a black politican to share the views of his black constituents?

"Funny....make a CLAIM that it was a NO speech and then refute your own claim by saying it was a Texas speech. And you wonder why you're an ass."

No Sarge the word of the day is COM---PRE---HEN--SHION!

Two situations where people were flooded; one in TX, and one in LA.

"W" to the people of TX; "I feel your Pain" This was when he was on the campaign trail for Pres.

"W" to the People of NO; "I remember when I was younger and came down here to party and blah... blah.... blah...."

"By the way, did anyone notice how racist Mayor Nagin's statements on NO reconstruction were the other day? He's afraid New Orleans (an unhabitable mess) is going to be "overrun by Mexican workers." Of course, if the residents of New Orleans want it cleaned up and won't do it themselves, how else does he expect it to happen? It's the oldest story in America. It's how the country was built."

BTW; notice how the citizens of New Orleans were kept out while the workers were allowed in? Yes for a reason, yet there's more happening in NO than you care to address.

"It's the oldest story in America. It's how the country was built."

You mean on the backs of slaves and migrant workers? Thanks for the history lesson Dr.

mattk, keep in mind that neo-con racist in denial are diamond hard.

"Um...because the media and some black leaders incorrectly pinned the Katrina thing as a racist thing and asses like you believed every word of it."

You saying that you would prefered not to see the chaos in New Orleans? I saw NO, I see you, and both are pathetic.

I don't know why it's so hard for the left-leaners to condemn these kinds of tactics. I don't know if I'd go QUITE so far to call the old 'Uncle Tom' epithet racist, but it is without a doubt reprehensible. Plain and simple, it's a mindset that holds black people back, at least, those who embrace it. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume that it is natural contrariness that defends these actions. That would explain why Russ has to change the subject and talk about New Orleans etc.

I don't really think there is much anxiety among the democrats about losing the black vote. Despite the oh-so-clever table-turning of republicans calling democrats racist, I would say that the GOP is the more racist of the two parties. Certainly, you're going to find a lot more hardcore racists in their ranks. By this I do not dismiss the Cadillac racism of white liberal condescension. While I hope the GOP is able to purge its unrepentant racists, I don't expect this in the near future. Black and gay republicans will be double minorities in the forseeable.

Most of the time, Russ is avoiding the real point here. However, this one quote of his was enheartening:

"This rogue attack on Lt. Gov. Steele is distasteful, despicable and degrading," Walker said. "Democrats are ready to engage Michael Steele in a spirited discussion about the issues that matter to Maryland and to our nation. ... Hatred and bigotry are enemies of the Democratic principles of fairness and opportunity for all people."

I don't entirely trust the Moonie Washington Times; I wouldn't put it past them to lump together a few random attacks and call it a phenomenon. However, I really don't know much about these particular candidates and races (pun unavoidable), so I'm not going to act like I do. But whether the attacks are isolated or part of a broader activity, they deserve repudiation.

SF, I didn't change the subject here. The Black people in America have roots in Africa. They were brought here in chains, millions have died in slavery, and the GOP would like everyone to believe the chains don't exist.

How many here remember Rosa Parks when she sat in the front of the bus? Did anyone here watch her memorial service?

When you see racism first hand you don't forget what it looks like. When you need to go to the restroom, have you ever had to make the choice between Whites and Negroes?

Gilliard is calling it as he see's it. His comments being racist are not a drop in the bucket compared to what happens here at PME. His comments are harsh, yet true. He if you choose to acknowledge it, because he's lived it; "has the capital."

Some may percieve it as racial, or radical, and the same was said about Rosa Parks and MLK.

If you truly wish to address a racist issue, then address the Country Club issue.

Sarge - Is it racist to expect a black politican to share the views of his black constituents?

It's racist to throw racial epithets at people you're politically opposed to. Not sharing the same political viewpoint does not mean you're any less "black" or don't care about "black issues". Just because you're OK with it, doesn't make it any less racist.

No Sarge the word of the day is COM---PRE---HEN--SHION!

No Russ, I COM-PRE-HEND things just fine and go off of what you say instead of following the Russ "read between the lines" illogical mentality.

Not unlike; "I feel your pain." Unless he was refering to his self-induced pain aka; hangover. In his speach it was important for NO to return to a party town. You really think that's what the people needed to hear? Good Job Brownie!

See, I comprehend just fine. If you have a problem with putting your point across...not being able to string 2 sentences together clearly, well, that's YOUR problem. You weren't talking about 2 situations until you started your little backpeddling episode.

mattk, keep in mind that neo-con racist in denial are diamond hard.

Russ, keep in mind that you share UY's asshole obsession #1 and can only find racism by lying...that's right, making shit up in your head.

You saying that you would prefered not to see the chaos in New Orleans?

Gee Russ, keep on putting words in people's mouths like the asshole you have become...following the tutelage of UY bit by bit. No Russ, I'm saying that the media followed the bullshit "this is about race" notions that were incorrect.....and you bought every bit of it.

I saw NO, I see you, and both are pathetic

Awwww.....I feel so bad that you think I'm pathetic...might as well go drink myself into a stupor because Russ thinks I'm pathetic. Coming from an asshole like you that needs to manufacture things in his head to pin his obsessions on other people, I'll take that as a compliment.

MJ I've been reading about these attacks on Steele for a while now. He was the one who had democrats trying to get his credit card records, remember? They are mighty scared of him.

Russ: This, along with your next twelve paragraphs is BS, try again.

The truth:

For more than two months, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District and the FBI have been investigating the unauthorized obtaining of Mr. Steele's credit report by two former staffers of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC).

Flounder away...

SF, I didn't change the subject here.

No offense, but I disagree. Whatever the sins of the GOP, they don't change whether or not this is proper behavior. Like I've said about a bunch of other topics (I should compile a list of logical fallacies), it is perfectly plausible that they are both wrong. How does GOP racism mitigate democratic race-baiting?

His comments being racist are not a drop in the bucket compared to what happens here at PME. His comments are harsh, yet true.

First, why are we now comparing racism here on this one website and racism/race-baiting in a political race? Second, I don't think that's really fair. In my short time here, I haven't seen anything that I could comfortably label "racist" (although I have run into poorly-argued anti-Muslim prejudices from Patrick). Finally, are you comfortable saying that everything Gilliard says is "true"? How about this:

This week, the News Blog -- a liberal Web log run by Steve Gilliard, a black New Yorker -- removed a doctored photo of Mr. Steele that depicted him as a black-faced minstrel. However, the blog has kept its headline "Simple Sambo wants to move to the big house." A caption beneath a photo of the lieutenant governor reads: "I's Simple Sambo and I's running for the Big House."

I find that kind of talk disgusting, and I wish you would join me. The idea that a black person is not allowed to harbor conservative sentiments is just plain absurd. It IS racist when you expect all black people to think alike. We certainly don't expect the same from white people. Fortunately, it should be pointed out that the democratic party agrees with me with regards to this according to the same article, as follows:

A spokesman for the Maryland Democratic Party denounced the depiction as being "extremely offensive" and having "no place in politics or in any other aspect of public discourse," The Washington Post reported. Democrats have denied any connection to the News Blog.

If the democratic establishment can agree with me and the people of PME on this, perhaps you can find it in yourself as well. I think if you do that, the complaints you have against GOP racism will have more credibility. If you can't admit to mistakes by people on your "own side", then nobody will take you seriously when you point the finger at them.

The whole situation is an internal debate between blacks and should be kept that way. I'm tired of whites playing refereee and judge when we decide to call out members of our race who do not act in the best interest of our race. In my opinion, the GOP or the Dems don't deserve support from the African-American community. All African-Americans need to register as independents so we can make the GOP and Dems truly deal with our issues.

No self-respecting Black man, conservative or liberal would attend a meeting at a country club has no black members. Lt. Govenor Steele's attendance at that Club is tantamount to riding on the bus after the 1955 Montgomery boycott started.

I love the don't-cross-the-picket-line union mentality.

"No self-respecting Black man..." - That statement, in itself, is racist. That's like me saying no self-respecting white person would step foot in a black church... Like it's dirty or not good enough for me...

I hate to have to point out the truth, but the majority of racism in this country comes from the entitlement mentality of Black people on welfare (white people owe us for slavery so we shouldn't have to work) and the Democrats who pander to them.

I will make you a deal, if black people are entitled to something from white folks: I will buy one "Africa-American" a ONE WAY ticket back to Africa for reparation. Why? Well, to me, putting it right would be making it for them like slavery had never existed.

"I'm tired of whites playing refereee and judge when we decide to call out members of our race who do not act in the best interest of our race. "

Why do you think black people are supposed to act as a unit? What makes you think you have any place (any more of a place then you would telling a japanese man or an irish man) telling any of them what to do, as an individual? Why do you expect them to do what's in 'the best interests of the race' and not just 'the best interests of the most people'?

I don't go around telling irish people they should do what's in the best interests of irish people, I especially don't go around telling them to put irish interests above others, and I don't go around bad-mouthing protestants because 'those unionist bastards aren't really irish'. I don't expect any irishman to act anything like me just because we're both irish, it means jack shit. If I see 2 redheads arguing I don't get upset if a hispanic man breaks them up because 'he's not one of us' and he should had left 'us' to settle it amongst 'ourselves'.

Maybe it's because I don't identify myself as an 'irishman'. That's not who I am. It's what I am, I'm a man who happens to be Irish, but it's not who I am, it's coincidental. Maybe that's part of the whole problem.

People are individuals, they can act as they see fit to individually act regardless of what race they are. When people are told they have to act in a specific way in accordance with thier race I call that racism, and I will defend the individual whether I am of the same race as him or not.

LTTL,

I am not acting as a "referee" or a "moderator" simply by stating an opinion. As far as I'm concerned, the same rules apply to political discourse, no matter the skin color. Steele is not running for office in Black America, but multi-colored America. Should white Maryland residents sit this one out? How does that work?

I would not presume to patronizingly tell black people how to live their lives. But on the other hand, I'm tired of the idea that white people can't possibly have ANY valid input into black issues. I'm sure your feelings are motivated by encounters with some real ignorance but it would be a mistake to paint all white people with the same brush.

I agree that black people should register as independent, but I also feel the same way about people of all hues. I'm completely appalled by the lack of valid ideas in either party.

This was me:

In my short time here, I haven't seen anything that I could comfortably label "racist"...

This was DT:

I hate to have to point out the truth, but the majority of racism in this country comes from the entitlement mentality of Black people on welfare (white people owe us for slavery so we shouldn't have to work) and the Democrats who pander to them.

I stand corrected.

>>That's like me saying no self-respecting white person would step foot in a black church...

Is it a church that is all black by reason of population density or is it all black because whites are excluded.

In the country club example blacks were officially excluded.

And DT you never thanked me the other day for digging up that info the other day.

"In the country club example blacks were officially excluded."

Prove it.

All the articles I've read about it said it was a country club to which "A black has never been a member" before, NOT "black people were barred from joining".

What happens when a white person walks into a black church? I'm not sure, I never have, but I can bet they are made to feel uncomfortable by strange looks or comments - and that is fine, since the parishoners probably don't see too many white folks in their church. I am willing to bet the Mr. Steele never felt uncomfortable in that country club. Also, if you furnish proof that black were officially excluded - becausee they are black, and not because they may not meet income requirements or some other demographic - then I will officially denounce that place, but still not see what makes Steele non-self-respecting by going there for a meeting.

Some Fella, you can call me racist all you want. That's what ya'll are so good at. If I tell you I think homosexuallity is disgusting and just plain wrong, you'll call me a bigot. If I think that women should stay home with their children, if and whenever possible and make financial sacrifices to do so, you'll call me a sexist pig (although I AM a woman).

I call it as I see it and the only thing I see are a bunch of black people running around (no not all of them, so don't turn this into stereotyping) saying that white people owe them and society owes them and they are oppressed. Why is there a United Negro college fund and not a United Cracker (Whitey, honky, whatever you prefer) college fund? Poor people, women and blacks have more opportunity to succeed than White middle class males ever will, so which side is the racism, classism, sexism coming from?

>>I call it as I see it and the only thing I see are a bunch of black people running around saying that white people owe them and society owes them and they are oppressed.

Well, up until VERY RECENTLY they were oppressed. Its going to take some time to even out. We're not quite there yet.

>>Poor people, women and blacks have more opportunity to succeed than White middle class males ever will, so which side is the racism, classism, sexism coming from?

Where the hell do you get this stuff from? If you can't afford to go to college, you're much less likely to get good jobs. Period.

---

Poor repressed Delicate Thunder. Do you feel discriminated against?

DT:

Every a successful black person comes out as a Republican, he is an Uncle Tom or an Oreo.

The rats, the poverty pimps and race hustlers have a vested interested interest in keeping the Black Man on the plantation. Instead of positive images like Powell, Rice, Thomas, and Steele, they like the oppressed 3rd generation on the dole, like those in the 9th Ward in NO.

This is how they want Black people to think of themselves, power and money to them. Upper class ghetto trash as a Black friend of mine calls them, but he is Jamacan and an oreo.

Bill

I can tell you what happens when whitey walks into an all-black church. Very little out of the ordinary behavior at all. After the initial "who's the white boy" glances with a touch of wonderment....they went about their worship as they always did without me being there. Afterwards, there was always "social time" in the back function room and in the churchyard where I've eaten the best damned food in the world. Not "good for your cholesterol level" food, buy damned tasty. Yes, since it was in Alabama, it was mostly "so-foo" as Aunt Tess (the woman whose nephew I knew) called it. Fried chicken to die for, al dente greens, pie like you've never had, someone would rack up a buncha ribs out back. Monster pork shoulder smoked and tender. Corn pone, hush puppies. Catfish fritters. Mmmmmmmmmmm....and I went back numerous times because they were not only so welcoming to me, but also accepted that I was there without gossipping more than a few minutes. Not a big deal to them. Not a big deal to me.

Dammit...forgot that I need to keep up the racist image Russ keeps claiming I have. Let's see.....hmmmmmmm....somewhere.....yep, there it is. I correctly quoted Aunt Tess as calling it "so-foo"....dammit, I must be a racist.

DT,

That's what ya'll are so good at.

Who are "y'all"? If you're trying to lump me in with any group, you're already wrong. You would think you might even notice that from this thread alone, but you've already shown a propensity to lump people together.

Some Fella, you can call me racist all you want.

I admire your bravery in taking such a controversial opinions! Seriously though, I don't make such accusations lightly. But sometimes people have racist thoughts, and if you took people at their word, you would think that was never the case.

I'll be more specific and address your statements. You said that the whole reason for racism is the attitude of black people on welfare. First of all, that's just WRONG, but it's not being incorrect that makes this a racist statement. Rather, it's your sweeping negative generalizations of a racial group that I label as racist.

Yes, I know you weren't saying all black people are on welfare. But first, you are characterizing all black welfare recipients with the same wide brush, and then you're using that minority of the larger black population to take the blame for racism against the entire group. Why should a subset of blacks be representative of the larger group? For this to be the "whole reason for racism", they have to be a bit more than aberration. You don't sound very quick to repudiate the racists for this gross misconception that you attribute to them.

Moreover, like I said, your statement is just wrong. It's incredibly weak to blame the wrongheaded ideas of racists on a small subset of blacks. There was racism in this country from the get-go, long before welfare. And there has been a continuity between the past and the present. There are MANY reasons for racism in this country, and most of them are intellectually weak and spiritually bankrupt. Blaming the welfare state and shiftless unemployed blacks is the kind of thing you do when you have absolutely no perspective.

>>Prove it.

You dont seem to understand how this works.

You have ignored every single request for clarification from others.

As for as im concerned no one has to prove anything to you ever. Least you start backing up your own assertions.

But here is an example anyway.

http://lubbockonline.com/news/102297/ld0680.htm

DT: Ill call you and ignorant slag because thats what you are.

>>the poverty pimps

Coming from people in the thrall of morality pimps I could hardly care less.

I agree with Sarge.

"Well, up until VERY RECENTLY they were oppressed. Its going to take some time to even out. We're not quite there yet."

How about up until right now? Lacking a dictionary definition, you're cluless as to what oppression is.

Why do you agree with Sarge? The analogy is cute at best. So he ate soul food, big whoopie shit! Did he tell you about the time he agreed to change skins with Aunt Tess's nephew and go to a white church? Sarge was a little boy at the time, he still is. He's spent some time in the US Army and now he wants you to know how brave he is, a trained killer. He still isn't brave enough to trade skins with Aunt Tess's nephew. A black man for a day, week, month or year?

It isn't a problem, right? Oppression doesn't exist!

We have come a long way in fifty years, are you willing to go that distance again? The following comment is proof we haven't gone far enough.

"All the articles I've read about it said it was a country club to which "A black has never been a member" before, NOT "black people were barred from joining"."

As for as im concerned no one has to prove anything to you ever. Least you start backing up your own assertions.

More projection? Lemme know when you follow your own advice.

But here is an example anyway.

An example.....not THE example. A country club in Dallas and an article about a CLINTON nominee shows how asinine you are. How about the guvna of MD and the particular country club in question? Damn that logic. PLUS, you rarticle didn't mention if this was a policy at the Dallas club...or if it was just a fact that there were no black members. Regardless, you've shown nothing having to do with THIS case...as usual.

I agree with Sarge.

Holy shit....now we're agreed TWICE in the same year. Call the press....

"We have come a long way in the last fifty years."

The distruction of the black family, the runaway birth of babies illigitimently. Isn't the govenment tit great.

Bill

>>More projection?

No.

"I don't know why it's so hard for the left-leaners to condemn these kinds of tactics. I don't know if I'd go QUITE so far to call the old 'Uncle Tom' epithet racist, but it is without a doubt reprehensible. Plain and simple, it's a mindset that holds black people back, at least, those who embrace it. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume that it is natural contrariness that defends these actions. That would explain why Russ has to change the subject and talk about New Orleans etc."

SF, anything I might say to Steve Gilliard is from a white mans perspective. It's the same perspective that you have approached this.

I never said Gilliard was correct in his action, I haven't cheered him on. I believe he is entitled to his anger. One hundred years after the Civil War, we have civil rights riots. What you are saying is; "we had a war that set you free why can't you be happy and free?" Well, maybe not you exactly, but millions of americans do. Twenty years before Rosa sat down, black men in the US military were treated less than human. What you see here at PME is that racisim is about the democratic party and the south, well excuse me the US military during WWII wasn't the democratic party and southern.

It hasn't been long enough, enough time hasn't passed, to warrant white people telling black people not to be angry or feel betrayed.

When does it stop? Maybe acknowledging Steve Gilliard's anger would be a good place.

Why is the "Uncle Tom" epitet reprehensible?

Why the comparison of PME racism and and this article? To keep it simple; Aaron is only concerned because Steele is a republican and the issue of racism in america is of little or no concern to him.

"The distruction of the black family, the runaway birth of babies illigitimently. Isn't the govenment tit great."

When swine such as you were the fathers, were the babies considered illegitimate.

Billy, when Sarge commented that the dying off of some was a requirement for change in america, I think of you. Yes, then I pray.

Russ:

I am a Yankie, acitve in the civil rights movement, suffered a lot dead people in the War Between the States.

Russ, we set out to FRee people not to enslave them to the State.

The people that bitch the most are commies from the midwest, who had FRee Black People compete for the jobs that they thought should have been theres.

Bill

"What you see here at PME is that racisim is about the democratic party and the south, well excuse me the US military during WWII wasn't the democratic party and southern. "

What alternate universe do you live in?

In WWII there were as many democrats in the army as there were republicans.

The Army was one of the very first institutions in the country to be completely (and voluntarily) desegregated.

"It hasn't been long enough, enough time hasn't passed, to warrant white people telling black people not to be angry or feel betrayed."

I agree, it hasn't been long enough, enough time hasn't passed, to warrant anyone (not just white people) telling 75 year old black people to not be angry or feel betrayed.

Problem is, 75 year old black people aren't the ones feeling all angry and betrayed. And good for them.

It's plenty long enough to tell it to a 16 year old black kid who is angry about slavery.

"Why the comparison of PME racism and and this article? To keep it simple; Aaron is only concerned because Steele is a republican and the issue of racism in america is of little or no concern to him. "

Bullshit.

What you are saying is; "we had a war that set you free why can't you be happy and free?"

Russ, I didn't and wouldn't say this. I don't know how this follows from my comments. Racism is alive and well, but not JUST in white people.

SF, anything I might say to Steve Gilliard is from a white mans perspective. It's the same perspective that you have approached this.

That's true, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

It hasn't been long enough, enough time hasn't passed, to warrant white people telling black people not to be angry or feel betrayed.

Hmm, I'd say it depends. On this issue I stand somewhere between you and MJohnson. I refuse to stand back and refrain from expressing my opinion about what's right and wrong. I'll try to avoid jumping to conclusions, and I can understand if even, yes, 16 year old black kids are angry about slavery. And it's not just slavery, but the hundred years of segregation and Jim Crow that followed. More importantly, it's the legacy. This is just a complicated topic, so I tread lightly and take it on a case by case basis.

Why is the "Uncle Tom" epitet reprehensible?

This is a good question. The short answer is that it is a reactionary instinct that strikes out at any black person who strays from a surprisingly orthodox view of what it means to be black. Black people who become educated and speak with a white accent are subject to derision, and these things are discouraged. It should be easy to see how this interferes with the ability of black people to improve their condition.

This idea that black people have to stick together also leads to a great deal of ideological orthodoxy. This case is a perfect example of that. Diversity of ideas and openmindedness are good things, in my opinion.

I'm not going to say that the charge is never warranted. It is definitely possible for a black person to be self-hating, and run away from his background in a self-destructive manner. But it is almost never constructive to make this a part of public discourse. In that sense, it's like calling people who disagree with you stupid. You might be right, but that's not going to accomplish anything.

"Where the hell do you get this stuff from? If you can't afford to go to college, you're much less likely to get good jobs. Period."

Hmmm, last time I checked, here in the great state of PA anyway, welfare will FULLY pay for college tuition. Not to mention federal and Pell grants, and govn't subsidized loans. All of which a white middle class male who's parents make 50k a year (barely enough to pay a mortgage on a 3 BR slum) is NOT eligible for.

Women, blacks and poor people (along with other "minorities") have more OPPORTUNITY, most of them simply choose not to take advantage of it.

SF, you over analyze things. My whole point, is that I try to live my own life. "Minorities" are the ones that group themselves. I think Women and homosexuals are just as guilty as blacks. It's like this, if you want to be treated equally, STOP DEMANDING SPECIAL TREATMENT! Simple concept really, but everyone who points it out is called racist.

I could care less what color skin you have, what kind of plumbing you have, which way your door swings or what your economic status is, as long as your an honest, hard working American not looking for a hand-out. Unfortunately, those who look for hand-outs are usually the "minority" groups. I'm really not sure why that's so hard to understand or what's racist on my part...

75 year-old blacks can be angry about Jim Crow but not 16 year-old blacks. Ok, fine so that also means 50 years from now,. 75 year-old white folks can be mad about 9/11/01 but not 16-year-old white kids? Going by this line of logic, Jews born after the end of WWII should not be outraged by teh Holocaust. Hell, people still blame the Jews for the death of Christ and are pretty mad about it and that happened 2,000 years ago.

As for D. Thunder. Before I moved to Detroit I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. I don't know where you are getting your minorities just want a handout thing from when all over the south side of Pittsburgh (a majority white area in the city) there is unemployment, drug abuse and folks looking for a handout.

The looking for a handout thing has nothing to do with color. The issue is that the steel mill/coal miner generation did not do a good job of teaching their children the importance of an education since the majority of them went to Alcoa or US Steel after high school or quit highschool all together.

By the way, I'm in graduate school and have a full-time job. Never been on welfare or taken a handout. I also was accepted to Pitt, Penn State and IUP. I just decided to go to a historically black college. Now I may have taken a loan or two that is now being deferred until I get my Masters in 07. That is far from welfare.

Russ, I didn't and wouldn't say this. I don't know how this follows from my comments. Racism is alive and well, but not JUST in white people.

Simple, Russ likes to sink back into his head and create a straw-man out of what you DO say in order to fit his obsession #1. Everyone here at PME is racist...didn't you get the memo. We're all racists here because we have a different political ideology than Russ. Even if we work on the campaign of a black man, somehow, we've gotta be doing it for racist reasons.

It's gotta be in your comments up there somewhere.......somewhere.

As for D. Thunder. Before I moved to Detroit I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. I don't know where you are getting your minorities just want a handout thing from when all over the south side of Pittsburgh (a majority white area in the city) there is unemployment, drug abuse and folks looking for a handout.

Depending on where you live this is true or not...but it's not based on "race", but being poor and "int the system". If I live in Cambridge, MA....those demanding handouts are black. In Jamaica Plain, MA they are 50/50 black/hispanic. In East Boston, they are hispanic. In South Boston or Charlsetown, they are white. It's got nothing to do with "race", but living in and growing up in the entitlement system. PLUS, what DT said about college is also true in MA as well to varying extents. We have numerous programs in the UMASS system that will pay for most, if not all of the tuition for those on welfare (you know, to help get them OFF welfare)....even for text books...even for free childcare on-campus. It's not like they don't have the opportunity here, but they've still gotta graduate HS and stand the fuck up and TAKE that opportunity.....nobody's gonna shove it down their throat.

Lean to the left, By you're logic, I still should be pissed over the Potato Famine and demand reparations from Wandering Brit.

Irish were treated fairly badly in America too. I demand the government buy me a house and give me a job, to make up for the government allowing people to sell not my great-great-grandfather a house and not give him a job on the basis of him being Irish.

>>Hmmm, last time I checked, here in the great state of PA anyway, welfare will FULLY pay for college tuition. Not to mention federal and Pell grants, and govn't subsidized loans. All of which a white middle class male who's parents make 50k a year (barely enough to pay a mortgage on a 3 BR slum) is NOT eligible for.

Sorry, I call bullshit. Show me some proof that someone on welfare can go to college.

Good luck getting student loans if you're on welfare.

To be more accurate you take out loans.

You more than likely need a co signer.

One banks trust.

If it wasnt for my grandfather cosigning my loans I wouldnt be able to go to school.

Sorry, I call bullshit. Show me some proof that someone on welfare can go to college.

Ooooooo....matty calls "bullshit" because he just can't bring himself to beleive the truth that there ARE programs designed to get welfare recipients into colleges and to help them pay for it. Let alone, matty doesn't understand Pell grants, and Perkins and Stafford loans. Hint matty, EVERYONE is qualified for Perkins and Stafford loans. Another hint: If a woman living in a project in Boston goes to UMASS Boston and takes out Stafford AND Perkins loans, and gets a tuition waver from the State.....the loans are more than her cost of college and she gets to pocket the rest, to be paid back as everyone else does. Let's see how long it takes me to find the numerous programs in MA to get low-income people (mostly women) into college....

WOW!!! ONE search. If you wanna read about Mass (which youi probably don't" you can go HERE. So, call your "bullshit" all you want....but that doesn't make it so.

"Why the comparison of PME racism and and this article? To keep it simple; Aaron is only concerned because Steele is a republican and the issue of racism in america is of little or no concern to him. "

""Bullshit.""

Have you ever seen a comment here to support your bullshit assertion?

Then you follow with a lame Irish Famine retort. How many years were the Irish enslaved, chained, whipped, raped and murdered. Yes the Irish were abused yet what you fail to address is that none were required to fight their way through the White "vs" Negro gaunlet.

Of all that I've written you pick the one comment that goes against the grain here because it's true. If you are republican or democrat and you stand against racism, then stand up and say so. If your comments didn't leak the racist ignorant bullshit that you're full of, you might have a leg to stand on. Now go ask your mommy for more cocoa puffs.

PS. Did I misunderstand you when you stated that a lynching was about one person being hanged?

Hell, want some more to shut up your bullshit "bullshit" calling? Just take a look at the UMASS FA office listings to see how friggin' easy it is to get loads of financial aid and tuition wavers, and fed-loans.

Federal Pell Grants provide grants to students with exceptional financial need. Students pursuing their first undergraduate degree are eligible for consideration. Awards range from $400-$4,000 per year for full-time enrollment. These amounts are subject to change. Part-time degree students are also eligible.

Army ROTC Scholarships are offered for two, three, and four years and are awarded on merit to the most outstanding students who are interested in becoming officers in the U.S. Army. Scholarships are available for up to $20,000 annually and pay the cost for tuition and mandatory fees or room and board equivalent to the cost of what tuition and mandatory fees would be. Scholarship winners additionally receive $450 per semester for textbooks and a monthly stipend of $250, $300, $350 or $400 depending on the studentfs year. For more information, call (413) 545-2321/2322. The Department of Military Leadership also offers ten $1,000 grants each year to enrolled cadets based on merit. Applications for two- and three-year scholarships, as well as the $1,000 grants, are available in January for award during the next school year.

Air Force ROTC offers two-, three-, and four-year scholarships to qualified new and continuing college students. Scholarships range from $3,000 to $15,000 per year for tuition and mandatory fees. While attending school, students with scholarships receive $600 a year for books and a tax-free stipend ranging from $250 to $400 per month. For more information, call (413) 545- 2437/51, e-mail:afrotc@acad.umass. edu or visit the Web page: www.umass.edu/afrotc.

MASSGRANT: This need-based grant is awarded to full-time undergraduate Massachusetts residents. Awards to qualified students with need range from $300-$1,300 per year. Out-of-state students should inquire with their state agency for similar scholarships. Part-time degree students may be eligible to receive Mass Grant if they have 6 to 11 credits.

University Awards: The University provides grants and scholarships from various sources to in-state and out-of-state students who demonstrate financial need. Award amounts range from $200 to $8,000 per year. These awards include Tuition Grants, University Scholarships, McNair Scholarships, Tuition Waivers, Traffic Fines Scholarships, and University of Massachusetts Grants.

Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant: A need-based grant funded by the federal government and administered by the University. Awards range from $100 to $4,000. All undergraduate students with demonstrated financial need are considered for this grant.

Tuition Waiver Programs

Waivers of tuition are available to Massachusetts residents as defined under Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 15A, Section 19 to members of the following categories:

1. Members of the Massachusetts Army National Guard.

2. U.S. Veterans from World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Lebanese Peace Keeping Force, Grenada Rescue Mission, Panamanian Intervention Force, or Persian Gulf War.

3. Native American students who are enrolled members of a federal or state-recognized tribe or nation or who can verify affiliation with a tribal council or Native community and have resided in the state of Massachusetts for at least three years before admission to the University.

4. Persons over the age of 60.

5. Active members of the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force or National Guard) stationed and residing in Massachusetts.

6. Adopted persons aged 24 or under who were adopted through the Massachusetts Department of Social Services.

7. Persons aged 24 or under who are currently or were formerly foster children (for a minimum of twelve consecutive months) in the care of the Department of Social Services, who were not adopted nor returned home.

8. Recipients of the Stanley Z. Koplik Certificate of Mastery Awards, which recognize high academic achievement on the MCAS and other measures of academic achievement.

9. Participants in the Massachusetts Educational Financing Authority | Prepaid Tuition Program, in direct proportion to the eligible studentfs participation in the program.

10. Eligible participants in the Joint Admissions Tuition Advantage Program, for students matriculating at the University immediately following Massachusetts community college enrollment, for 33 percent of the resident tuition.

11. Recipients of University of Massachusetts Academic and Artistic Talent Program Tuition Waivers, awarded to students showing outstanding ability and promise in studio art, dance, music or theater, regardless of residency.

12. Participants in the Incentive Program for Aspiring Teachers, for Massachusetts residents in their third and fourth year of college, who have earned a cumulative GPA of at least 3.0, and who have entered a teacher certification program in a designated teacher shortage field (math, science, foreign language, and special education).

13. Recipients of matching scholarships and internships from businesses and industries participating in the High Technology Scholar/Intern Tuition Waiver program, for Massachusetts residents who are students in computer information technology/science and engineering.

14. Massachusetts residents who have been designated by a public or private high school in the state as valedictorian.

15. The Massachusetts Board of Higher Education has expanded the Tuition Waiver Program to include residents of the Commonwealth who are directly affected by the September 11 events. The Commonwealth September 11, 2001 Tragedy Tuition Waiver provides a 100 percent tuition waiver to children and widowed spouses of Massachusetts residents for any non-state supported course or program.

16. Recipients of scholarships from the Washington Center for Internships and Academic Seminar.

17. Participants in the University of Massachusetts Exchange Program.

18. Commonwealth College students who are recipients of Commonwealth Talent Award tuition waivers.

Need-Based Loans Federal Perkins Loan: A need-based loan administered by the University. Repayment begins nine months after graduation or nine months after the borrower ceases to be enrolled at least half-time. The repayment period is 10 years at 5 per cent interest. Awards range from $200 to $3,000 per year.

William D. Ford Federal Direct Subsidized Loan: A need-based federal loan administered by the University of Massachusetts Amherst. The application and promissory note for this loan are completed at the school. Eligibility for this loan is determined by completing the FAFSA or the Renewal FAFSA. First year students may borrow as much as $2,625; second year students may borrow up to $3,500. Students who have completed two years of undergraduate study may borrow up to $5,500 for each year thereafter. The federal government pays the interest on the subsidized loans while you are enrolled in school and during your six-month grace period after graduation or withdrawal from school. The federal government will allow at least ten years to repay this loan and offers several flexible repayment plans.

Employment Programs Federal Work-study Program: A need-based program providing students with part-time employment in a variety of on-campus departments and off-campus agencies. Awards range from $1,500 to $1,800. Students are paid weekly and use these funds to help with personal expenses or other educational costs.

Job Listing Service The Office of Financial Aid Services/Student Employment Office provides students with current listings of on- and off-campus jobs. This service is designed to assist students in finding temporary, part-time, and seasonal jobs to help meet their educational costs. Jobs are posted outside of Room 243 in the Whitmore Administration Building and on Financial Aid Services' Home Page at: http://www.umass.edu/umfa

Let's not forget that they have FREE child-care, work-study programs....AND as has been done by hundreds of thousands if not millions of students....one can ALWAYS go through the ROTC program.

You can sit down now.

SF, you over analyze things. My whole point, is that I try to live my own life. "Minorities" are the ones that group themselves. I think Women and homosexuals are just as guilty as blacks. It's like this, if you want to be treated equally, STOP DEMANDING SPECIAL TREATMENT! Simple concept really, but everyone who points it out is called racist.

How about; "If you want to be treated equally, demand equal treatment?"

"Minorities" are the ones that group themselves.

Consider the fact that you placed yourself in a group of non-minorities. What are the requirements for being a minority as you see it?

Yes the Irish were abused yet what you fail to address is that none were required to fight their way through the White "vs" Negro gaunlet.

Nice...minimizing what the Irish went though as "abuse"....how quaint. No, they only had to fight through the "Irish need not apply" gauntlet. No, not the same but it's also not the same to compare historical atrocities either. AND nice straw-man to begin with. MJ was not equating or comparing the Famine with slavery no matter how much you want his words to be doing that. He's commenting on the logic of lttl, the rest is in yoiur head, as usual.

If your comments didn't leak the racist ignorant bullshit that you're full of, you might have a leg to stand on.

Ah yes, the old Russ-troll is still creating racism where it doesn't exist. Good job UY's doing on the tutelage. Go on...point to fictitious racism some more....it makes you look sooooo wicked smaht. Uh oh, I pointed to yet another of your baseless attacks, therefore, following that logical fallacy that you love, I must be racist. Guess I'll have to stop campaigning for a local black man.

What are the requirements for being a minority as you see it?

Ummmmmm.....having a lower percentage of population than the majority? You don't understand simple math either?

Sarge - What a list!

Yes, I know there is plenty of financial support available for people who "qualify."

The specific claim I was desputing was that being on welfare would pay for college. I still don't see any evidence of that.

>>Let's not forget that they have FREE child-care, work-study programs.

They have it soooo good, don't they?

"I never said Gilliard was correct in his action, I haven't cheered him on. I believe he is entitled to his anger. One hundred years after the Civil War, we have civil rights riots. What you are saying is; "we had a war that set you free why can't you be happy and free?" Well, maybe not you exactly, but millions of americans do. Twenty years before Rosa sat down, black men in the US military were treated less than human. What you see here at PME is that racisim is about the democratic party and the south, well excuse me the US military during WWII wasn't the democratic party and southern."

"What you are saying is; "we had a war that set you free why can't you be happy and free?" Well, maybe not you exactly, but millions of americans do."

SF, I see your point and I appreciate your comments and views. In the first sentence I stated "you" and correct you didn't say this. I think the statement more correct if I had inserted americans rather than you. Some of your comments do lean towards "you're free now why can't you be happy." My position is, " the Civil War" happened, free from slavery was proclaimed, yet the guantlet a black person must pass through to achieve freedom still exists. Does it exist in the same manner as it did fifty years ago? I think not, yet it does exist.

To compare Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond to Steve Gilliard and try to make a racism case is very wrong. Is it a racism case, sure, yet coming from a republican Jewish white man it leaks like a sieve.

Few black men and women have achieved success (what is success?) without being subjected in some manner to "Uncle Tom and Jim Crowe" oppression.

"The Army was one of the very first institutions in the country to be completely (and voluntarily) desegregated."

Sarge, you're so quick to attack me and my comment that MJ is full of BS. Then take the leg you stand on and support this BS comment of his. It's a given that he hasn't spent a day in the military or the NG so help him out a little on his BS.

If you're up to it later, we may discuss your obsession with obsessions.

PS. Sarge, Life is so easy for the black man woman and child, didn't see a comment where you would trade skin color.

Ummmmmm.....having a lower percentage of population than the majority? You don't understand simple math either?

Count the bacteria in the petri dish mentality, who woulda' guessed?

The specific claim I was desputing was that being on welfare would pay for college. I still don't see any evidence of that.

Well, we don't even HAVE "welfare" any more....we have numerous welfare-like programs now....one of which is to provide loads of free cash, benefits and other college opportunities to those ON "welfare". Didn't you know they changed the name to a less derogatory and easier sounding terms?

They have it soooo good, don't they?

Who said they have it "good"? I'm saying they "have it", they just have to go "get it".

"The Army was one of the very first institutions in the country to be completely (and voluntarily) desegregated."

This is a factual statement. The army was one of the first institutions to be completely (and voluntarily) desegregated. Care to frefute that fact? Let's see, the army was desegregated in 1948. Schools were ORDERED desegregated in 1954. Care to add some refutation in there or did you speak before thinking again?

PS. Sarge, Life is so easy for the black man woman and child, didn't see a comment where you would trade skin color.

Didn't see a comment from me claiming life was so easy for ANYONE....must be yet another of your incorrect "in your head" suppositions following your obsession #1. BTW, I wouldn't trade my life for ANYONE's. That's part of enjoying the life you've had...as I do.

Count the bacteria in the petri dish mentality, who woulda' guessed?

Well gee Russ, if a minority is the majority, they wouldn't exactly be a minority now would they? Care to choose another term to deal with?

Sarge if welfare is so great why dont you quit your job and queue up for the dole?

That makes no sense, Um. You don't think it's easier to sit on your ass all day drinking beer and smoking doobies while being paid by Uncle sam to do it??? The point you miss, is that some people are content living this way because they're lazy, while the rest of us enjoy the satisfaction of a hard day's work and higher income.

If welfare isn't so great to most of these people, why don't they get off their asses and get a job? Don;t tell me they can't, because I know PLENTY of black people with excellent jobs.

Russ, I will gladly trade skin and get everything handed to me and have people around me afraid to say anything "mean" to me for fear they will be called racist. Don't tell me that black people can't get cheap if not free college, just because of their skin color... That's what's truly racist.

>>If welfare isn't so great to most of these people, why don't they get off their asses and get a job?

Its very possible, even likely, to be under the poverty level with a low level full time job.

>>Don't tell me that black people can't get cheap if not free college, just because of their skin color... That's what's truly racist.

Actually, I will tell you that. You don't get "cheap" or free college just because you're black.

United Negro College fund

I went to a Technical School - it cost 30 grand for 2 years (I don't say this to brag or get comments, I say it simply to demonstrate how expensive college is).

I was a single, teenaged (17) mother at the time (say what you will). I got a couple of grants, but not nearly enough to cover the bulk of the cost. In confidentiality, I was told by the career services rep, when I asked why I couldn't get more assistance, she basically said because I'm not black. Actually, I straight out asked her, "If I were black, would the government be paying for this", she said yes.

Also, I called welfare, to see if I could get anything to assist with living expenses, and I was told that I would have to live in Section 8 housing, instead of with my parents. So I have to take free housing to get welfare? What sense does that make? They also said they would pay for my college - completely. It may be different in other states, but welfare pays for college here. I might as well live on the left coast - complete socialism.

Also, I signed for a loan at 17 with hardly any income and no cosigner... explain that one, UY, since you know so much about this stuff...

This is a factual statement. The army was one of the first institutions to be completely (and voluntarily) desegregated. Care to frefute that fact? Let's see, the army was desegregated in 1948. Schools were ORDERED desegregated in 1954. Care to add some refutation in there or did you speak before thinking again?

This comment along with the "it's true because Sarge said so" mentality is really sick. No one needs a lesson in the law Sarge, it's the reality of what actually happened that's of significance. Desegration only only equates to "no racism" in your thimble dick brain. I remember three black children stepping off the bus (and their names) and you can bet your ignorant ass it wan't 1954. Now you have a case of MJ syndrome, you believe it because you read it.

Nice cop-out. You wouldn't trade your life for another. Actually not many people would because we don't actually know what the next moment brings. So for the sake of discussion, imagine yourself telling your great-grandchild why your back is criss-crossed with scars, and imagine the same child not being angry when on the recieving end of a racial comment.

If you choose to stay as you are then just imagine yourself truly ignorant and try not equate ignorance to your college education.

"Russ, I will gladly trade skin and get everything handed to me and have people around me afraid to say anything "mean" to me for fear they will be called racist. Don't tell me that black people can't get cheap if not free college, just because of their skin color... That's what's truly racist."

Your words are empty in regard to changing skin. I will give you credit for actually embracing your racism. We know your not in denial.

Russ, you are truly the poster-boy of white guilt towards minorities. Whata load of crap.

>>I signed for a loan at 17 with hardly any income and no cosigner

You probably went to community college.

Its cheaper, and you get what you pay for.

Just for the record,

The reason the "Uncle Tom" label is so reprehensible is that the character of Uncle Tom in Harriet Beecher Stowe's famous book is not only a slave who is submissive to his masters, he is a slave who is cheated of his freedom and then forgives those who have done it to him, dying a martyr's death. Thus, to ca;; someone that is to disrespect thier intellect and assume that they are being deceived into believing the positions they are taking. And it implies that the person throwing the epithet knows somehow that the "Uncle Tom" will eventually be cheated out of everything by the ones he supposedly serves--and not even have the sense to hold it against them.

Scum:

My Daughter graduated from UA with honors, I sent her to a Community College to work out her youthfull stupidity.

Small money to save some large money. She had a rocky beguining but she did well.

Bill

Not to comment one way or the other, but I found it interesting that, when you follow the "employment" links for Purdue University, moving to faculty for the School of Liberal Arts, you get a page headed, "Affirmative Action Office." Scroll down and you find the position opening announcement for a joint appointment in Health and Kinesiology and African-American Studies. Strangely, the job description mentions qualifications only in health behavior and makes no mention of any field of study that could conceivably earn an appointment in African-American Studies.

http://www.purdue.edu/humanrel/aao/openings_liberal.shtml

You figure it out. I am completely baffled.

"Russ, you are truly the poster-boy of white guilt towards minorities. Whata load of crap."

I have no guilt or shame in regard to this topic other than the acts committed by myself. I made a choice to change my choices. Academic and practical experience make for a good foundation in life. Many who write here have only academic knowledge to work with. My practical experience of witnessing a black man hanging (administered by the law) for a crime not committed does not add to my guilt and at the time it didn't reinforce my need to speak out against racism and bigotry. It didn't distort my vision of racisim, yet in my memory was burned a heinious crime.

When I see racism I speak out, not out of guilt, but out of respect for myself and my fellow human beings.

As a human race and as Americans, we have not moved far enough away from where we were fifty years ago to ignore the acts of racism, especially by the white man. I'm not naive and I'll not accept you racist comment.

If you believe there to be white guilt concerning racism, then I can say it's well earned. It isn't obvious in the postings here, unless you're refering to the "lets not talk about it echo" or the "lets make it a political issue."