"It is, however, undeniable, that you are more likely see a shirt like this being worn by liberal, veteran or novice."

Wow, i think some sort of record for inanity was just broken.

Thank you, Aaron, for taking part in the Abercrombie & Fitch marketing campaign. Your political ramblings, no matter how convoluted, have carried our name into a new market.

You'll recieve a free t-shirt in 7-10 business days.

I wholly condemn the liberal ideology that allows that celebrates t-shirts like this.

I agree, they're degrading and disgusting. And yes, Dagny Taggart would never wear something like that. And I agree that most conservative girls would not wear something like that.

However, I believe in free speech/expression, and I don't think the government should be trying to tell retailers what t-shirts they can and can't sell (with a possible exception being something that is inciting violence or causing other security concerns).

In other words, I agree with Aaron (reread the post).

Sorry for 3 posts in a row, but that last one should say:

...(I reread the post).

Shut up Dick.

He says if the Senate resolution doesn't stop Abercrombie from selling its shirts - he'll lead a boycott of the stores.

Boycott....yes. Legislate...no. I disagree with either action, but if you've got a problem with a legal product boycott it, don't try to legislate it.

Good to see that UY still is incapable of saying anything.

The one thing i find most amusing about Aaron's post (Richard's response) is the "our girls don't wear shirts like this" attitude. I bet you'd be surprised at the things "conservative" girls do.

No court in America would rule in favor of a city, state or federal government ordering a T-Shirt not to be made. AF has the right to produce the shirt. The marketplace has the right not to buy the shirt.

Hey Aaron, care to comment of these shirts? I suppose only liberal southern girls wear em...

http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/womens-shirts/womens-attitude-shirts.htm

I saw the two young girls leading the protest of these tees on Fox and Friends the other morning. A and F has said they would pull a couple of the worst shirts from their stores. Of course it is the liberal moral culture that produces and encourages this crap. I disagree however that only lib type young people would wear it. So would children of idiotic,ignorant adults that don't get what is happening within the culture war in this country. They wouldn't be AWARE, even if they held less liberal opinions than some. There really are people like that. The ones that don't see the harm in little Mary dressing like a whore because it is current fashion, and hey, all the other little girls are wearing it. They ain't libs with a capital L, they're just stupid.

>>Good to see that UY still is incapable of saying anything.

I was going to to say how the only ones I see commenting about this are feminists and right wing douchenozzles.

Lisa, when was the last time you read a book?

They ain't libs with a capital L, they're just stupid.

(libs with a capital L) stupid

Anyway, let me modify my position. I could imagine hillbilly NRA Republicans from Alabama wearing this shirt. However, that's not really what I mean by conservative.

against my better judgement, I shall answer Um yeah. I started reading Nancy Drew books at the end of 1st grade. My fave thing to do as a child was our trip every two weeks to the library. I still read constantly. It is really the neatest thing, try it sometime Um.

Oh...well I tried to put a biconditional between "(libs with a capital L)" and "stupid" but it must have looked like an HTML tag and disappeared.

actually Rich, I was referring to some of the not really liberal, but just ignorant people in my own small town here in the Northeast. I did understand your post, and I agree.

Lisa,

I agree with you. I thought it was worth mentioning.

maybe we should just blame it on the green party.

No court in America would rule in favor of a city, state or federal government ordering a T-Shirt not to be made. AF has the right to produce the shirt. The marketplace has the right not to buy the shirt.

True. However, a school system can ban offensive and/or lewd and/or "disruptive" clothing as has been done with many clothing matters.

I was going to to say how the only ones I see commenting about this are feminists and right wing douchenozzles.

Not only did you NOT say that, but by saying that, you've said nothing and added nothing to the discussion. Once again...

...and THEN you follow it up with more "Lisa, when was the last time you read a book?

TOm, I don't agree that this is entirely a liberal thing on the "demand-side" in any manner (I know I'll be seeing thousands of these shirts in the local college crowds and a good number of those girls are from conservative families)....but the "anything goes so long as it's not 'hurting' anyone" and "she's just expressing herself" mentality that this degrading crap springs from isn't exactly from the conservative ideology.

...but I love A+F's marketing talent. What's this, the second time they've gotten more than a week of free advertising with their "questionable" tactics?

Anyone else find the sheer irony in the Google ads on the right side of this article?

maybe we should just blame it on the green party.

The Green Party is too irrelevant in this world to receive that kind of blame. Blaming them legitimizes them like they have any "real" power to do anything.

"but the "anything goes so long as it's not 'hurting' anyone" and "she's just expressing herself" mentality that this degrading crap springs from isn't exactly from the conservative ideology."

And islamic extremists and the whole "cutting of the hand of a thief" crap isn't exactly from the liberal ideology either.

It's an inane point. Trying to make liberals look bad while lifting up conservatives as the "ones with morals."

Nice dodge. Answer this question: Which ideology has an "anything goes" mentality as part of it's ideology? No, leave your muslim herrings out of this. Which ideology has the "she's just expressing herself" mentality? No, leave the muslim herrings at the door. Whether or not it's conservative girls or liberal girls wearing this trash, A+F is exploiting those mentalities.....and they aren't conservative.

Yes, liberalism is more open, more tolerant, more apt to let people do and say what they want. And that's a good thing. The downside to that is sometimes having to deal with things that may offend your personal sensibilities.

But, WHAT people do, WHAT people wear is up to them is not a ideological thing, but a matter of personal beliefs and tastes. Believe me, i've know plenty of ideological liberal women that were very conservative in certain aspects of their lives.

Liberalism allows for people to choose what they want to wear, allows people to say what they want.

My contention is that Aaron is trying to paint ideological liberals as the ones who wear this kind of thing, and I don't think you can say that.

>>I still read constantly.

Books?

The National Enquirer doesnt count.

>>Not only did you NOT say that

I didnt say it on my first post but I did say it.

Point?

your first paragraph belies your last sentence. Now come on. Everyone knows that Hollywood is liberal AND largely devoid of traditional values. These tees are the sort of thing that the "cool" celebrity-driven Hollywood-worshipping media promotes. Sorry Tom, it is way more a lib thing than it is a conservative thing. Guess you just have to take the "good" with the bad.

No, Lisa, I said it's liberal thinking and tolerance that allows for people to wear shirts like this (and i don't think anyone on here thinks these shirts should be banned), but to say politically liberal people are more likely to wear something like this is wrong. It has to do with taste and personality more than politics.

>>These tees are the sort of thing that the "cool" celebrity-driven Hollywood-worshipping media promotes.

Not really.

ones' political views are rooted in ones' outlook on life. Liberal outlook; immoral tees, conservative outlook; moral tees. In general,this holds true, I'm just sayin'.

"Liberal outlook; immoral tees, conservative outlook; moral tees."

ah yes, liberals are immoral. i forgot. you're right, lisa.

What does a moral tee look like?

"What does a moral tee look like?"

I think she's talking about crucifixes.

>In general,this holds true, I'm just sayin'.

OMFG, does brain rattle around when you shake your head?

Anyone else find the sheer irony in the Google ads on the right side of this article?

Wow, that's crazy. Makes perfect sense, but I didn't notice till you pointed it out. Pretty damn funny, actually. I wonder if there are white supremacy sites with google sidebars that have ads for afrosheen...I can only hope.

In all fairness, I'd like to point out that there are many flavors of conservatism. A lot of libertarians would shrug their shoulders about this kind of thing. I'm similarly inclined. It's in bad taste (what else is new for A&F?) and may even be offensive to some, but I see that as the price you pay for a free society i.e. this baby comes with bathwater.

Nice dodge. Answer this question: Which ideology has an "anything goes" mentality as part of it's ideology? No, leave your muslim herrings out of this. Which ideology has the "she's just expressing herself" mentality? No, leave the muslim herrings at the door. Whether or not it's conservative girls or liberal girls wearing this trash, A+F is exploiting those mentalities.....and they aren't conservative.

I'm willing to debate this with you, yet it requires more openness than you expressed here. How do you support "anything goes" as liberal? I believe you are a proud supporter of 1A rights. You've expressed it a few times, so how do you do this with boundaries placed on another person? I don't believe anything goes and along with few other choice word you surely may call me liberal. Anything goes is not part of my life.

How do you support "the A&F marketing model" isn't conservative? I do agree they understand their rights and if you choose to see 1A right as exploiting then support your interpretation of 1A. It's never been my view that 1A was a liberal vs conservative undertaking. I don't agree with everything you write nor a million others that have different views than I, yet I believe in 1A and this equates to that your right, and I accept your, along with a million other views, and this doesn't equate "anything goes."

If conservatives wear the shirts it means, what? How does the shirt become trash?

Sorry, that Senator has to go. The shirt is not harming anyone, AT ALL. He has no right to even mention banning sale of it. This is completely against my small government mentality, and I don't see how he can call himself a Republican. Just because the conservative movement is gaining ground, does not mean we have the right to ban all things Liberal. It's just like them trying to ban God and Christmas - hello? Wake up and smell the power-hungry. We put them in power and we can take them out. If they start acting like this all the time, they need to go.

They had a catalogue a while back, that basically had child porn in it - now that is inappropriate and should be pulled. Especially since people who did not necessarily ask to be were slapped in the face with it. No one's making you buy the shirt and if someone else is wearing it, you shouldn't be looking at her boobs anyway.

On a personal note: would I where a shirt like this? Absolutely not. Do I can if someone else does? Nope - unless it's my daughter (but I have two sons currently - and we won't even get into what I'd do if one of THEM was wearing it).

It's like this, iif women/girls want to look like idiots and promote themselves sexually instead of intellectually - be my guest. I can say though, you get smarter with age, but your boobs will sag ;-) then what's worth more?

Yes, liberalism is more open, more tolerant, more apt to let people do and say what they want. And that's a good thing. The downside to that is sometimes having to deal with things that may offend your personal sensibilities.

You forgot the qualifier "more tolerant and open" SO LONG AS YOU SHARE THE LIBERAL VIEWPOINT. Everyone else just needs to, to quote UY and matt "shut up." BUT, I'm not talking abour perceived "tolerance". I'm talking about the "anything goes so long as it's not physically hurting someone" mentality. The pierce everything mentality. The color your hair magenta and then whine when nobody hires you mentality.

Point?

No, you've not mentioned a point yet.

Not really.

UY says so...bow down and take heed to the almighty omnipotent megalomaniac.

I'm willing to debate this with you, yet it requires more openness than you expressed here.

No Russ. You don't know HOW to "debate"...only to "argue"...and very weakly at that when you have to resort to manufacturing lies to incorrectly pin labels on others.

How do you support "anything goes" as liberal?

Because it's liberals that espouse the "anything goes" mentality. Do you get outside much?

I believe you are a proud supporter of 1A rights.

Yes, I am.

You've expressed it a few times,

Yes, I have.

so how do you do this with boundaries placed on another person?

You don't and I have not taken that position in any manner at any time. Good job with the straw-man thus far.

I don't believe anything goes and along with few other choice word you surely may call me liberal.

An exception to the rule does not negate the rule. Welcome to "debate" class.

How do you support "the A&F marketing model" isn't conservative?

I don't. Next straw-man.....

I do agree they understand their rights "

Yes, they have avery right and understand that right.

and if you choose to see 1A right as exploiting

I do not choose so. I choose that A+F is exploiting the "anything goes" mentality, nothing more. Next straw-man.

then support your interpretation of 1A.

I do support, not MY interpretation, but THE interpretation...in plain english. Don't interpret the Constitution. It's in plain english. Next straw-man...

It's never been my view that 1A was a liberal vs conservative undertaking.

It's not mine either. Next straw-man....

I don't agree with everything you write nor a million others that have different views than I, yet I believe in 1A and this equates to that your right, and I accept your, along with a million other views,

Very kind of you Russ. Remove the qualifier that in order to speak out FOR this war you somehow have to sign up to fight IN this war and you've got the 1-A down pretty well.

and this doesn't equate "anything goes."

You're right. That's because the "anything goes" mentality is much bigger than the first fucking amendment. Get out of the small-world thinking a little bit. It goes down to every action undertaken in public and private, not just "speech."

Nice line-up of straw-men though. Yeah, that's "debate".

...you shouldn't be looking at her boobs anyway.

Says who? So long as there's writing on the T-shirt covering the boobs, I'm gonna try to read it. So long as there's 4 inches of cleavage...I'm gonna look. And every straight male here will do the same...most of the time.

Let me rephrase that:

No one is making you buy the shirt. If you don't like the saying and are offended by it, it's your OWN fault for looking at her boobs.

Better?

By the way, if I saw someone wearing this shirt, I'd point and laugh. It's not the company degrading women, it's the women degrading themselves. If they're adults, they can do as they choose, and make themselves look as stupid as they wish. If they're not adults, then the parents need to regulate what their kids wear (or at least teach them better than to think that way in the first place).

Sorry, but I really can't see this as a Democrat vs. Republican issue. It's a freedon issue. You're free to make an ass of yourself and if someone else gets rich off of it, more freakin power to them.

Apparently people want to wear this shirt whether us conservatives like what it says or not.

"By the way, if I saw someone wearing this shirt, I'd point and laugh. It's not the company degrading women, it's the women degrading themselves."

I think everyone needs to lighten up a bit about this t-shirt.

Frankly, "who needs brains when you have these" is not that dumb of a statement. There's a long line of women who have succefully marketed their bodies and made quite a bit of money from it. I wouldn't call these women dumb.

Second, i don't think women who are going to wear this shirt actually think they don't need a brain. They are not degrading themselves. It's a freaking t-shirt. It's joke with a small amount of truth behind it. Lighten up, Francis.

Sarge:

I'm talking about the "anything goes so long as it's not physically hurting someone" mentality.

DT:

Sorry, that Senator has to go. The shirt is not harming anyone, AT ALL. He has no right to even mention banning sale of it. This is completely against my small government mentality, and I don't see how he can call himself a Republican.

Like I said, it's not just liberals. It's also libertarians, who tend to call themselves conservative. Not that I disagree with them on this issue. Perhaps you've heard of "South Park conservatives", i.e. moderate libertarians.

Sarge, you accuse and say nothing for yourself. I understand and yes I do get out, yet you choose to live where you do, and the people you see every day who have made a choice to live as they do, pierced, painted with multi-styled/colored hair, are still not living in your percieved world of "anything goes."

I'm small world thinking, thanks for the laugh. Yes 1A is bigger than speech, just try to insert "freedom" into the slot occupied by "anything goes."

"Very kind of you Russ. Remove the qualifier that in order to speak out FOR this war you somehow have to sign up to fight IN this war and you've got the 1-A down pretty well."

More herring, is this suppose to mean something?

Oh I got it, I can speak out and still support the troops!!

How'd I do Kid?

Good Russ, keep on following UY-tactics. PAragraph one says nothing but an ad hominem and a string of irrelevancies.

No Russ, I didn't say that 1A is bigger than speech, I said very clearly that the "anything goes mentality" is bigger than speech. It goes to every action being anything goes.

More herring, is this suppose to mean something?

Yeah Russ. Unfortunately, it's not herring as you say because I'm dealing directly with your praising 1A rights. It's pointing at your asinine qualifier that in order to speak out FOR this war one has to join up and fight this war or you're a hypocrite. It's dealing with your asinine non-logic concerning those that agree with this war. There are other opinions other than yours Russ and one shouldn't put qualifiers on free-speech. That's not the 1-A that I swore to defend, yet that's what you believe.

Oh I got it, I can speak out and still support the troops!!

See Russ, that's called a straw-man because not only I have in no way ever said that, but the point still stands. Only thing I ever say is that "supporting the troops" is an action, not a trite meaningless phrase for one to throw around.

I am not your kid, but if that's all you got....

SF, nice try, but DT pointing out that the Senator can't ban the shirts because they hurt nobody is a statement of fact, not proof that DT follows the "anything goes" mentality in her life and going off of what she's said here thus far, I'd venture to guess that she does not follow that "anything goes" mentality. AND yes, it also belongs to the Libertarians....but the Libertarians in MY area are the "legalize marijuana" liberal crowd...the party has been hijacked away from the true small-government, less taxes "capital L" libertarians.

Delicate Thunder, I have to take issue with you on your comment that "the shirt is not harming anyone at all." When something degrades society, it hurts ALL of us. You don't choose to participate, but you must live in that society, and whatever the culture is becoming DOES affect you.

So Tom, How would you react to a guy wearing a a pair of jeans that said over the crotch area;" Who Needs Brains When You Have This?"

but the Libertarians in MY area are the "legalize marijuana" liberal crowd

As far as I know, this is the position of the libertarian party as a whole, not just your area.

...the party has been hijacked away from the true small-government, less taxes "capital L" libertarians.

We could all argue all day about who is a "true" conservative, and who has strayed. Some conservatives say that W has strayed from the small government ethos...and I have to agree with that. Libertarians would say that most of you guys were not "true" conservatives.

These kinds of debates are not only pointless, but they highlight the pointlessness of these labels. Why be a "conservative"? Why label yourself at all? Personally, I have my own philosophy. The fact that I don't care about all these different "schools of thought" makes it very easy for me to avoid the kinds of paradoxes and oversimplifications that are baked-in to any pre-cooked philosophy.

Another thing, I see these definitions of conservative and liberal very abused. People fall into the trap of thinking that conservatism (or liberalism) means a certain thing because that's how it's currently manifested in this country. I'd be curious to see how people out there define these terms. Any takers?

"Delicate Thunder, I have to take issue with you on your comment that "the shirt is not harming anyone at all." When something degrades society, it hurts ALL of us. You don't choose to participate, but you must live in that society, and whatever the culture is becoming DOES affect you."

Sorry, Lisa, but you're way over analyzing this. Is a saying on a tee shirt, no matter how stupid or "degrading" really hurting society as a whole? It's not like it says: "Beat your wife". even if it did, we have something in this country called free speech. If people want to say stupid things, they can, and you and I cannot and have no right whatsoever to stop them. All we can do is educate ourselves and our children to be better.

Besides that, what do you care if some other chick is wearing a shirt that says something stupid? Again, if she wants to make herself look stupid, how is it hurting you? We cannot control people. Once we start asking the government to step in and control people's opinions and (within reason) lifestyles (I say that because I'm not at all for promoting polygamy or pedophelia - some people see those as lifestyles instead of mental illness), we are no longer Americans.

My question to anyone challenging this is, what makes you think you have the right to control other people?

I may not agree with magenta hair, and I don't have to hire someone who has it because it's unprofessional, but I am not God and I can't dictate to someone what color hair they can have. I'm sure SF would agree, you can safely insert a Hitler reference here.

Sarge, you are correct. I do not follow an "anything goes mentality". This shirt is a bad example of how I view things, because it is so petty. If it were a deeper issue, it would be more representative of my feelings. I truly believe (the, yes, Libertarian side of me) that words do not hurt people. Calling you fat will not hurt you, calling you a racist name will not hurt you. People whine way too much about words.

Actions are what can be potentially damaging. So I say, quit harping about a tee-shirt and go out and arrest the women who actually DO sell their bodies (and transmit disease and degrade society in the process). Bimbos wearing stupid shirts aren't hurting anything, get over it.

How would you react to a guy wearing a a pair of jeans that said over the crotch area;" Who Needs Brains When You Have This?"

I'd laugh my ass off, just as I will whenever I see the first self-degrading woman I see wearing one of these shirts.

As far as I know, this is the position of the libertarian party as a whole, not just your area.

Yes, but in MY area this is the entire platform of the L-party because it's not small-government, less-taxes Libertarians running things anymore...it's liberal "legalize MJ" fresh-out-of-college weenies that have hijacked the entire party in MA, and they ignore the big-picture "Libertarian" issues because their one and only goal is legal weed. Sorry, that's not my issue in any manner if I were to choose any of 10 issues off the top of my head.. It's the only party I've ever belonged to and I ended my membership when it got hijacked. Maybe the true Libertarians in MA will one day take the party back....but I doubt it.

I disagree with your stance on labels. When used correctly, they can properly give you a general guess as to how a person may think on a certain issue. No, not a perfect system, but when I say my best friend and blood-brother is a flaming ultra-liberal, anyone can guess what his stances are on just about ANY issue and the extent to which he is assertive of his liberalness and they will be correct 99 times out of 100. However, there is also "throwing a label around" for the sake of throwing them around to try to denigrate someone....THAT is wrong.

(True) Libertarians are of the mind set that pot should be legalized for the simple fact that the government should not be able to run our lives. Basically, if those stupid hippies want to walked around partially comatose all day (as long as they're not driving), it's no worse than an alcoholic, let them fuck up their own lives.

The people that Sarge is referring to are raving Liberals in every sense of the *modern* term. They're a bunch of stupid college kids that pretend to be Libertarians (because they think it gives them credibilty). They hide behind the Libertarian party only to push their agenda. They want to legalize pot so they can smoke it without fear of prosecution, plain and simple.

Two totally different mind sets. Libertarians, for the most part, tend to fall more towards the conservative way of thinking as far as morals, etc. (True) Libertarians, however, are the true voices of freedom in this country. They believe the people should control the government, not the back-asswards other way around like it is now...

"The people that Sarge is referring to are raving Liberals in every sense of the *modern* term. They're a bunch of stupid college kids that pretend to be Libertarians (because they think it gives them credibilty). They hide behind the Libertarian party only to push their agenda. They want to legalize pot so they can smoke it without fear of prosecution, plain and simple."

These are the words used againt youth for thousands of years, yet somehow it seems to work out. Compliments to you on succint description of President Bush.

YEs, Libertarians SHOULD embody "legalizing weed" as a PART of their small-government platform....just not their entire platform.

Man Russ, we're not talking about words used against youths for eons....and I don't think 34 years of Libertarians can be compared with "thousands of years". We're talking about a particular political party being hijacked by youths with ONE AGENDA, and ignoring the bigger agenda of the party. They don't agree with the rest of the party, just the one issue. Now, the politicians the party puts up are true Libertarians, but the members of the party around here are not. They are liberal college students and recent grads that want the freedom to smoke weed legally. Good to see that you can tie Bush into any bash topic, no matter how asinine.

President Clinton. Feel better now? I know you weren't inhaling, you just sighed. Yes it has been thousands of years and maybe the topic/subject was off a few degrees, the words were the same. MY GOD, what's the world coming to? Look at our youth!

Are you saying labels are good if you use them?

Abe Lincoln too!

D.T. I am not advocating legislation to address this, not at all. At the same time, sticking your head in the sand and saying that it doesn't affect you at all is ludicrous. You say that we have to educate our children to do better. Well, how much harder is that to do when you have these kinds of pop culture degradations to fight against? You seem to believe that it's not a problem at all to keep your kids away from the current trends. I don't have the "right to control people ", as you say. But, I sure as Hell don't have to take the moral decay of our culture lying down either! Maybe if you had a daughter you'd feel differently. The moral ambivalence that excuses these t-shirts is the same one that allows the t.v. shows, movies, commercials, and ALL of our culture to keep on slowly sliding down into the cesspool.

Lisa,

Again, you over-analyze. Please tell me how this tee-shirt, specifically, is hurting you? Don't buy it and don't wear it. I have a 5 y/o son and one on the way. I also have three neices, I know what our culture is like, especially for girls. Fighting against the bad things, whether main-stream or not, is your job as a parent. There will always be bad things in society, which is what makes our jobs as parents so important. I have a feeling that if you raise your kid right, she would think the shirt is just a stupid as you do.

It's one thing if you're talking about what's being shown on MTV, it's totally different to get into hypes about a stupid tee-shirt. I've seen shirts that say MUCH MUCH worse. Are they hurting me? NO. I don't belong to the "How dare you say something to offend me!" crowd. If I don't like what's on MTV, I change the channel.

"You do not have a Constitutional right not to be offended"

DT, I thought you had a good point going then this, "You do not have a Constitutional right not to be offended."

Lisa has the right to express how she's offended or to ignore the shirts and live peacefully. What's the worst that can happen, nightmares about these girls stalking you?

You missed my point. She can be offended all she wants... BUT She doesn't have the right NOT to be. Meaning, no where, is there a constitutional law stating that you have the right to live exactly how you want and not ever be offended by what someone else has to say.

"She has the right to expression" is different than "she has the right NOT to be offended."

I think her point is that this is degrading our culture. I cannot agree with that. It's stupid, yes, but how is it hurting anyone?

DT, "offended" is an expression and it's Lisa's if she want's it. If she believes the shirts are degrading culture, that's OK too. If she chooses to be unhappy due to anothers taste in clothes, it belongs to her.

"You don't have to be wrong for me to be right."

You still don't get it. She can *feel* however she wants, she has the right to, but there's nothing she can do to make them stop saying or doing what it is that makes her feel that way.

You don't have the right not to be offended. You do have the right to walk away and/or express your disgust, but no one is going to step in and say "Hey, stop what you're doing, you're offending Lisa". That was my point in that statement. You're the one over-analyzing now. Or you just like to argue...

Well, well, well. This is truly a strange state of affairs! Russ seems to be defending me, while D. T. is disagreeing. First off, I would ask you D. T. why you believe that things like this don't degrade our culture, because they emphatically do. Secondly, my daughters are 18 and 24 and wouldn't be caught dead in this shirt. Thirdly, there is PLENTY that I and people of like mind can do to stop this moral decay. Lastly, I don't belong to the "I'll just change the channel crowd" because of all the OTHERS who are NOT changing the channel. I must live in the same society as they, and they WILL have an effect on my life and my world. You do not live in a vacuum. Other peoples' behavior will impact your life. Specifically, this t-shirt hurts me as a woman because it reinforces the notion that that's all I am good for. The "jesting" nature nonwithstanding, that is the message.

We're not going to agree. I think you're exaggerating, but that's your right. If people want to go around making stupid comments (men are all pigs; women are nothing but T&A) more power to them. Again, I don't agree with the saying on the shirt, but I also do not agree with blowing the whole thing out of proportion.

We have free speech and with that, you get stupid people saying stupid things. Am I going to have a hemorrage over it? Nah, not worth my time. There are worthier battles to fight. Leave A&E be the crappy, over-priced store that it is.

I say "Go for it!" Since very few conservatives would pay for this crap or be caught dead wearing it, I love it. This way brain-dead leftists and other feeble-minded DNA preponderances make capitalists and a corporation EVEN RICHER! By spending money to look even more stupid we send leftists further down the food chain.

I'm dabbling some in this myself. I am marketing T-Shirts and other items festooned with pictures of lily white WASP country club membership captioned "Diversity Sucks."

Are you saying labels are good if you use them?

No Russ, I 'm saying that certain labels are good if ANYONE uses them. Some labels are merely informative...that's why I included:

However, there is also "throwing a label around" for the sake of throwing them around to try to denigrate someone....THAT is wrong.

...just like when asses like you throw around the racism label.

I threw nothing, nor made any attempt to denigrate anyone, I acknowledged what was present.

Try reflecting on your comments regarding labels.

No you acknowledge what your brain manufactures in order to denigrate those that think politically differently than you do. Try accepting the fact that some labels are just informative and not denigrating. We use them all the time in a non-denigrating manner. Yes, even YOU use non-denigrating labels, Russ.

If you feel or think you have been deingrated by me then maybe consider wearing different clothing. A person may have different political views than I, without wearing a label of racist. You do the typical dodge. While not addressing an issue that is currently on topic, you choose to bring it elsewhere. For lack of a better term, and the need to deal with people with mental disabilities such as yours, the term used to describe the actions need and desired by the enactment of the Affirmative Action Program by LBJ was "positive racism."

That's just the way it is Sarge and you don't have to agree with it.

Precisely the point Russ. You have nothing to say that's correct about me, so you manufacture racism and other labels you can try to pin on me like "mental disorders"....but you're just bouncing around in things manufactured in your head until maybe one day an allegation will stick. That is not today.

There is no such thing as "positive" racism. ALL racism is a negative.

The active ingredient in racism is ignorance. Tell us again why your ancestors came to America? It was you who tried to paint my marathon analogy as weak. That's the ideology of the GOP also.

The current administration is trying to rewrite history. The fight of the last fifty years is being undermined by thinkers as yourself. Call it as you wish. If you care to see the stats, it's quite obvious and if you choose to use fabrication, then use it in the context of the plan used by the GOP and this administration to destroy the progress made for civil rights. The most you can come up with that remotely resembles one of your rights being abused is when your Senator didn't come to your rescue.

Maybe a "Teddy" Bear for Christmas will heal you.

Yet again precisely my point. Throw out a few ad hominems and a few red herrings and a few baseless claims aimed at the generic GOP and stir it all together and maybe if you repeat it enough times in an argumentum ad nauseum logical fallacy and maybe, just maybe something in there will be true.

Sorry, I live in the real world where there IS no "good" or "positive" racism.

Let alone th estraw-man of "The most you can come up with that remotely resembles one of your rights being abused is when your Senator didn't come to your rescue."

No Russ, that's not a violation of my rights, nor have I ever mentioned that as a violation of a right. I do not have the right to have my Senator make one call to assist in correcting a governmental "wrong".

Really? The GOP and the POTUS is trying to destroy civil rights? Care to back that up with fact?

Really? The GOP and the POTUS is trying to destroy civil rights? Care to back that up with fact?

With the amount of backing up you do, you should have it up your backside soon. Why would I waste my time on presenting amything, you are in denial. There's enough on the board that you have walked away from, why would I present more?

Good. Just like I thought. You provide nothing and claim mythical "other" things somewhere else yet not mention those things either. Flounder away in your baseless claims.

I'm not surprised, considering you think there's a such a thing as good racism....sorry "positive" racism.