oy vey!! Sorry for you Aaron!

Hi Aaron,

As you know I often don't agree with you. Yet when I emailed you requesting a thread on African debt relief you responded courteously and obliged. I'm sorry you got these emails. I'd say it was because people are so angry about the events of the past week and a half, but then people are often so angry about all sorts of things. So it goes.

To be honest on this one I'm not sure. So much was screwed up, so many mistakes and so many organisations had authority. I suspect there's enough blame to go around. I can't believe a state of 4.5 million people was expected to deal with the flooding of a city of 0.5 million. I don't care if they were meant to ask for help or not, it seems absurd that this wasn't automatically a national operation. If Bush had the ability to cut throu the red tape and get things moving then he should have done it earlier. On the whole I'm waiting before I decide. The shouting match on the other threads seems to be very partisan. Interestingly I've seen at least two diehard Bush supporting commentators in the UK criticise Bush on this one. I'm sure you realise Bush has a serious image problem outside the US, well this hasn't helped.

I read many of the reports on this incident on the BBC where they reported other media outlets take on the event. The one that has stuck with me the most is from a Kenyan newspaper - the journalist said when he first saw the pictures from New Orleans he thought they were showing the wrong VT, he assumed they'd got it mixed up with some African disaster - then he realised they were showing the right VT.

Like I said on this one I don't know yet, but lets face it those people deserved better. I hear they found a nursing home for the elderly with 32 dead and people are fighting over whose fault it is. I'd rather have seen people fighting to save them. Here's a link to another blog that tells a little of what it was like in NO. It doesn't say who's fault any of it was so I'm not sure how interested anyone will be. But it is critical of those on the ground so I'm sure someone will want to blame someone or say it isn't true. So it goes.

Oh well enough of my musings. Night.

Brit, I think many of us knew this would be used by some abroad to fuel anti-american sentiments. A few things that (I suspect) probably won't get much play in the media abroad but should.

expat yank

"And guess what? When all that happens simultaneously to hundreds of thousands in a city roughly the same size as Liverpool, even the U.S. does not have enough helicopters and military equipment within 10 seconds' flying distance to save everyone, regardless of race, immediately.

Actually, despite its best efforts, the Pentagon has not yet perfected mass "beaming" of entire cities' populations"

sky news

"The devastation left by the storm is massive. It's not only New Orleans, it's an area the size of Britain. News agencies often report only the bad or controversial bits of the news. For Sky News to ask the UK public to make a decision on Bush's handling of the disaster based on what the UK media has reported is a waste of an opinion poll. John Cunningham, London"

There was a very compelling anology I read about what sort of damage the damage this storm did would equate to...if it hit france. Sadly I can't find the link though. (This isn't a France crack, I'm just saying. There'd be equal turmoil if not moreso, in just about any country).

With all this tragedy, people are searching for answers. I don't think most are ready (or may ever be ready) for what I think is one of the largest answers though. this guy has a sad but true point.

"Why is it taking so long for aid to reach Katrina victims?

Well, mostly because they're all in the middle of a city that's been hit by a hurricane.

I'm not trying to be coy here. The simple fact of the matter is that it's just plain difficult to get food, water, and aid personnel to the people and places that need it the most. That is an obvious point that many seem to be missing. If it were easy to get there, the people there wouldn't need it the most. Someone else more difficult to get to would need it the most.

First, I'd like to state loud and clear that I'm absolutely positive that screw-ups are happening right now and that they'll continue to happen, despite anyone's efforts, right through until the end. They'll occur at the local, state, and federal level. The New Orleans and Louisiana governments will continue to screw up. FEMA will continue to screw up. The National Guard and the rest of the military will continue to screw up. Why?

Because it's what we call an "emergency". Things go wrong in emergencies. Things you thought you had covered don't work out like you planned when the rubber hits the road. Especially if the road is under ten feet of water..."

I think the problem is that there is a disconnect between what is happening and what people think should be happening.

When it comes down to it, people don't care which agency is at fault. And its not good enough for them to point fingers at each other.

Many people praised Bush for his handling of 9-11. He managed to ride a wave of patriotism that he didn't necessarily deserve.

Now, America has suffered an injury much greater than 9-11 and where is Bush? He's standing around saying "Its not my fault". Where is our great protector?

The one thing it seems we all can agree on is this - we should have been better prepared.

Hi Aaron, I seem to have made in, nevertheless I can't believe these negative comments towards you. I guess the American left has taken to discredit, honest patriotic web sites such as yours. The exploitation of this natural disaster by the the American left designed to bring down the president is mind boggling, and much to their chagrin average Americans have cut through the BS of the, media left wing kooks, and the democratic party.

These same Democrats ought to be working on understanding why the lost 7 of the last 10 presidential election, instead of exhibiting the vociferal hate for G W Bush. In the mean time, Republicans will continue to win Senate, Congress and the White House.

What's the point of a proper prior plan and preparation if it doesn't get used?

Angelo - Thanks for the "why do they hate america??" point of view. There is a difference between politics and patriotism - this is a political website.

The left exploiting a natural disaster? Might bush have 'exploited' a terrorist attack?

MattK I will blame your lack of knowledge on age

Hi MJ,

Lets not confuse the issue, people criticising Bush are not anti-American (they maybe but it’s not necessarily).

Re the quotes from Sky, first I don’t know if you get Sky in the US, but if you don’t know it’s owned by Murdoch. So when I clicked on your link I was in some ways surprised at how many negative Bush comments there were.

I think it’s fair to say I don’t just receive the British media view. While I haven’t commented much I’ve read every comment on this site in every thread on Katrina and followed up some of the links. Plus I’ve looked around at some other in the UK, US and abroad (trying to find details on Dutch land reclamation – hours of fun). And I don’t think the media has been that bad – but yes I think people on this site are probably better informed.

Yes I knew how bigger the affected area was and I’m so naïve as to think there would be any problems. Indeed I posted a link to a site that in 2000 was saying that that The levees were only fit to with stand a category 3 hurricane and a category 4 hits the area every 35 years. It also states that to evacuate NO would take 72 hours. I also said if it’s the POTUS’s fault or the Mayors then this has been the case for the past few POTUS and Mayors – this should have been sorted out years ago – it was an accident waiting to happen.

I appreciate your not being coy and that this has been a phenomenally tough situation. And I appreciate that it would be foolish to expected everything to have happened at once. That’s not what I’ve expected. But a small poor state was never going to have the resources to cope with the flooding of a city the size of NO or as was said Liverpool. Of course there were screw ups and will continue to be but there seems to be too many here and at a terrible cost to the people on the ground.

Hi mattk,

Yes I agree. And it’s really good to here both you and MJ not just knee jeck shouting as seems to the tone of a number of the other posts on this subject.

Hi Angelo,

I was really pleased to see when Aaron posted these comments he didn’t criticise the left but addressed the individuals. Abuse is not confined to the left or the American left but occurs on both sides.

You seem to be exploiting this natural disaster to characterise the American left in a certain way. My mind isn’t boggled by this, but I assume yours maybe.

“but then people are often so angry about all sorts of things. So it goes.”

Hi Sarge,

I don’t know the answer to your question. I hope others ask it until a satisfactory answer has been provided.

Hi again Angelo,

Re your last post-

Am I old enough to patronise you. I’m 39, but I know someone who I can call to post a comment in their mid 60’s. If you’re older than that I’m going to have to say your going senile. Cheap points are easy, but not worth much.

Mattk i did not mention anything about your mental state, as you have about mine, you answer to my firts e-mail assumes that patriotism and politics are not realted but in fact they are. Just log on to any University library archive and go and read speeches rendered by politicians in America's past and you will ubderstand. When JFK delivered his famous "ask not" speech at his inauguration, just what do you think he was aiming at doing?

You also need to better understand the meaning words, commenting on you lack of knowledge is not a peronal insult. Saying that I am senile, that is a cheap point not worth much.

Hi Angelo,

The last bit of your post refers to me but your first bit refers to mattk. I'll address the last bit.

Yes I know saying you are senile is a cheap point. My point was that you were patronising mattk because you may be older than him. I pointed out I may be older than you if not I could find someone who was. I then said if this wasn't enough that I would patronise you by saying you were senile. I was showing making cheap points by patronising someone is easy to do.

Patronising someone for being young is just as stupid as patronising someone for being old.

BTW I'm older than Aaron do you think I should ridicule him every time he posts a comment on the website he runs for his youth?

This whole thread is an expression of sophomoric behavior.

Aww, does Aaron get some hate mail for running a political website? I suspect he'd be disappointed if he DIDN'T.

Still, he'll post the half-assed messages as a representation of his opposition.

Angelo - I'm aware that politicians have made a few patriotic speaches in the past. Here are some definitions -

Patriotism - Love of and devotion to one's country. Politics - The art or science of government or governing.

You can love your country (and be patriotic) without loving your government.

I will, however, use this thread to complain that I can't post on the Kayne topic

Hi Brit! I don't understand how you can say it was absurd that the feds didn't automatically go in. "I don't care if they were meant to ask for help or not", you say? Well, societies have rules and laws, for good reason. It is oh so easy to look back on anything and say, gee, they should have done this or that. To your credit, and I am not surprised, you say are going to wait and see.

Lisa remember that FEMA/DHS link I posted?

It wasnt march 1st of this year, it was 2003.

It really was the Feds job.

no it wasn't. As long as the state had their PLAN in place, [you know, the one you are chicken to read],then they had the first responder job. No, you're wrong.

It was the Feds job, its that simple and since you seem to be far to dense to get it we arent talking about just first response.